Market crash: are we there yet ?

[Rickm505]

Originally Posted by chucklesR

The market went down, eventually, to the point he said it would go down to. Factually, he's been wrong on every other guess he's made, .

If you're going to quote what I said then get it right. It's all right here in this thread. I said there was a financial crisis coming (true) that would bring us into recession (true) caused by the mortgage industry (true), that would bring the market down (true). You said each one of these points would be false. You're about as factual as Bill O'Reilly and are as credible as any other right wing fanatic.

At least a few posters actually read what I wrote and notice it matches with reality. I'm not surprised nor concerned that you don't, as no Bush apologist can ever admit their boys screwed the country. I'll leave to others in this thread to decide whether or not I was right as I certainly don't need your validation.

Now, just what do you propose your boys do to fix the problems they've caused?

[PBzeer]

Rick, I hate to burst your bubble but, Bush has the least Constitutional responsibility for Fanny and Freddy between him and Congress.
It is the Congress' who has the primary responsibility to provide oversight, as they are the legislative branch. After McCain's Dem aborted effort in 2006, they have surrender that responsibility.

Chris Dodd, chairman of the Senate Banking Committee, as recently as July said that Fanny and Freddy were sound and in no danger. And from his House counterpart, Barney Frank, this record of unachievement.
Fannie Mae's Patron Saint - WSJ.com

[PBzeer]

From the editors of NRO, this assessment of the "Gramm Debacle".

Gramm-Leach-Bliley did not create securitization and collateralized debt obligations. It did not change the rules for banks’ leverage ratios. If anything, Gramm-Leach-Bliley mitigated some risks by allowing financial companies to diversify their businesses, and it is the most diversified firms that are best weathering the storm. Which makes sense: An investment portfolio is more stable the more diversified it is. The firms that have spectacularly imploded have mostly been non-diversified commercial banks, like Countrywide, or pure investment banks, like Lehman Brothers. But the broadly diversified megabanks are enduring — taking a hit from housing, sure, but they have other lines of business to sustain them. And we should not forget: Without the Gramm-Leach-Bliley reforms, Bank of America would have been legally forbidden to take over Merrill Lynch — very possibly leaving taxpayers on the hook for that one, too. Morgan would not have been able to buy Bear Stearns without Gramm’s reforms.

[chucklesR]

Originally Posted by Rickm505

If you're going to quote what I said then get it right. It's all right here in this thread. I said there was a financial crisis coming (true) that would bring us into recession (true) caused by the mortgage industry (true), that would bring the market down (true). You said each one of these points would be false. You're about as factual as Bill O'Reilly and are as credible as any other right wing fanatic.

At least a few posters actually read what I wrote and notice it matches with reality. I'm not surprised nor concerned that you don't, as no Bush apologist can ever admit their boys screwed the country. I'll leave to others in this thread to decide whether or not I was right as I certainly don't need your validation.

Now, just what do you propose your boys do to fix the problems they've caused?

You see Rick, therein's YOUR problem.
I didn't quote you at all, merely paraphrased, I don't call you a left wing liberal, or other insults - and you still get your facts wrong.

We are not in a Recession - show me two quarters of negative growth?
Sorry to all the nay sayers but even your misquided self made definitions of a recession at least call for more than one quarter - and the numbers have not said so.

You just can't do it - show me the numbers that say YOUR statements saying we were in a recession in December 2007 are now true - not even in your wildest fantasies have the numbers been revised to that point.
YOU ARE WRONG, WERE WRONG AND WILL BE WRONG because you only see on side of the picture.
Which brings us to the other point on which you are wrong. The housing industry is a part of the mess, but sad to say - because it deflates your ego - your industry is not the be all end all cause of the mess, just a part of it.

You admitted that in the Dem's vs Rep's thread when I brought it up - the true cause of this mess is the changes to the Financial Industry signed into law in 1999 by your buddy William Jefferson Clinton.
I'm not going to post a cross link because you'd probably say it was out of context. That's just the way you are.

Dude, you guessed a number. I'll give you that. Not one other guess has been factually proven - and PLEASE don't bother saying stupid insulting crap like you usually do. READ OUR POSTS for once instead of repeatedly pointing to the one sided drivel you post as FACT.

Show me 6 trillion in deficit caused by Bush - the easy number - I'll forego the 10 trillion claim as yet another Rick hyperbole typo, call it what you will. I call it a 'Rick-ism' I've gotten so used to seeing them.

Or, like you usually do, when proven wrong just go away and pout for a few weeks.

I got a good idea, go sailing for a while. Smell a daisy.

[chucklesR]

And one more point Rick, though I do not know why I or anyone else bothers - calling me a Bush appologist is as silly as it comes - anyone who actually reads what I post here or in the dem vs rep thread knows I'm far from a Bush 'anything'.
One more case of wrong finger pointing by the guy who would rather insult than post an honest rebuttal.
I can't believe people still reply to you at all.

[Rickm505]

Originally Posted by PBzeer

Rick, I hate to burst your bubble but, Bush has the least Constitutional responsibility for Fanny and Freddy between him and Congress.
It is the Congress' who has the primary responsibility to provide oversight, as they are the legislative branch. After McCain's Dem aborted effort in 2006, they have surrender that responsibility.

Chris Dodd, chairman of the Senate Banking Committee, as recently as July said that Fanny and Freddy were sound and in no danger. And from his House counterpart, Barney Frank, this record of unachievement.
Fannie Mae's Patron Saint - WSJ.com

Has anyone else noticed that the exchange between John and I constitute his misleading comments and me refuting them with facts?

I just know I can spend my time more productively as all this shows is that he will defend Republicans no matter what the cost is to the rest of us.

I don't see anyone defending a $6 Trillion deficit administration. except John, Sailaway21 and of course Chuckles... Even Cam sees the light. Xort has shriveled into oblivion.

I don't see anyone defending an administation that cost the lives of 4000 servicemen by invading the wrong country...except John, Sailaway21 and of course Chuckles..

Quit pointing the finger away from an administration that had complete control of this country for 6 of it's 8 years, and stymied the opposition the last 18 months.

Your boy wanted the top spot, well he got it. Look what it's done to the rest of us. Why aren't you guys offering solutions?

[Cruisingdad]

This is getting a little heated. I would like to urge both sides to take a deep breath. It is a good thread and good debate (from both sides). We are all friends here.

- CD

[PBzeer]

Let me ask you one simple question Rick, show me where I've "defended" anybody. I'm not the one obsessed with placing blame around here. That would be you. Anyone who has read more than 2 of your posts knows you think the Republicans, and Bush in particular, are the cause of everything wrong in this country.

I have stated repeatedly that the entire system is to blame, as well as those who took advantage of it. I made no distinction by party nor ideology. And unlike yourself, I make no claim to expertise, only a modicum of common sense. Nor do I misrepresent you as an apologist, as you do me.

I'm not in this thread, nor any other to defend anything but my own, independently arrived at, opinions. That some may agree with those whom you have shown a visceral and unrelenting hatred toward, does not mean I am defending them, nor apologizing for them.

Your lack of civility and intellectual dishonesty are readily apparent in both your words and tone, and something I have no use for. And as my interest lies in finding long term workable solutions, rather than a constant regurgitation of blame, it would seem there is no further point in coming to this thread. Especially as I find it tiresome to be around people consumed, as you seem to be, by hatred.

[sailhog]

Originally Posted by Cruisingdad

This is getting a little heated. I would like to urge both sides to take a deep breath. It is a good thread and good debate (from both sides). We are all friends here.

- CD

OUTRAGE is an! If you want to defend Palin Obama none of this would have happened if interest rates would have Greenspan but of course you have to defend McCain Obama Interest rates default rates congress $700 Billion!!@!!!!!!! McCAin Obama Lehman Brothers interest rates!!!! Palin's fault Obama Sachs Goldman!!!!!! HOusing crisis!!! If you would please refer to post 10,987, you would see that I was right!

Take CruisingDad that!

[chucklesR]

Again with 6 trillion. Got a link?

Here's one that says the war in total, at worst is 2 trillion - so show me how Bushie made a 6 trillion?