Market crash: are we there yet ?

[sailaway21]

Kudlow describes Bernacke's flip-flop and confirms certain naive seamen's cause for optimism.
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q...Q0ZWRhZDQyMmU=

[Sapperwhite]

Looks like Wall St. celebrated the 20th aniversary of Black Monday in a very fitting fashion.

From Reuters
"The Dow fell nearly 367 points after Caterpillar, the world's top maker of earth-moving construction and mining equipment, said the U.S. economy will be "near to, or even in, recession" next year. Several industries it serves already are in recession, it said."

Looks like we'll need a little bit more than 15pts a day.

[sailaway21]

Show me the money, Sapper!

On Black Monday, twenty years ago to the day, the American economy erased twenty per cent of it's wealth on paper. Today it dropped around 2% and we'll see where we're at by the end of next week. I do hope everyone took the opportunity to buy. And Google hit an all time high.

"There is no good economic news." (there never is!)

[Sapperwhite]

Originally Posted by sailaway21

Show me the money, Sapper!

On Black Monday, twenty years ago to the day, the American economy erased twenty per cent of it's wealth on paper. Today it dropped around 2% and we'll see where we're at by the end of next week. I do hope everyone took the opportunity to buy. And Google hit an all time high.

"There is no good economic news." (there never is!)

I didn't say that we lost 23% today, I said the anniversary was celebrated in a fitting fashion......a nice loss.

[chris_gee]

"It would be ironic if Clinton advisor Robert Rubin’s phone call to the Fed chief — a call that triggered a complete monetary about face — wound up bolstering the economy and keeping GOP presidential hopes alive."
Oh so Citigroup's Rubin was first in and triggered a FED about face. Would this be the same company that lost 6 billion last quarter presumably with more to come? That might explain why a Democrat adviser has access to Bernanke.
I am not familiar with the National Review to which you keep referring. Should I include it as an independent source of economic and financial comment?

[sailaway21]

I would suppose that the chairman of the Federal Reserve is probably in the habit of taking calls from ex-Secretary's of the Treasury. Just a guess.

Both Larry Kudlow and National Review are independent of government or business entanglements to the best of my knowledge. You could do worse than a subscription to the latter. Of course, if your taste runs more to Ben Stein you'll have to consider investing in the American Spectator. Both magazines are unrepentantly capitalist, if that is a concern.

[chris_gee]

Kudlow I think wrote that before the news about Citicorp was out. The tone of the article was to say that the actions of the Fed helped the GOP in a pre-election year, ironically in part because of the representations of a Clinton adviser, who, it is now evident, had his own barrow to push.
Capitalism doesn't concern me. Propaganda amuses me.
Another view is given by Roach on http://www.online.barrons.com/articl...555665403.html. I have no idea of his politics.

[PBzeer]

National Review is Bill Buckley's rag, while The American Spectator is R Emmit Tyrell's. Both would be considered "conservatve". Both are also heavy on facts, versus emotion. For online links to most all of the major media, of every stripe, it's hard to beat the Drudge Report.

[sailaway21]

Chris,
I and Mr Kudlow see the irony in it all and I'm sure that neither Mr Kudlow nor Chairman Bernacke thought that Robert Rubin was making the call for lack of better pastimes on a slow afternoon, although the extent of Citi's woes might have surprised them both. So where's the propaganda?

[chris_gee]

Propaganda perhaps starts with a position and seeks to report such "facts" and interpret them in such a way as to uphold it.
A closer look at the employment "facts" may show that the so called birth death factor of new companies accounts for most of the job gains and this tends to be overstated at this stage of the economic cycle. There are other reasons also to look harder at them, the margin of error, the influence of part time and low paid work, a lower participation rate, and the fact that much of the apparent improvement in the revision for August was that over a hundred thousand teachers were apparently inadvertently not counted the first time.
"Financial confidence has improved, the credit crunch has loosened, and stock markets worldwide have rebounded dramatically, with the Dow hovering near its high of 14,000. This wipes the 2008 recession scenario off the table. For example, the latest jobs report shows 110,000 new payrolls for September, with the prior two months revised up by 118,000.

In the annals of flip-flops, the Bernanke switch is as good as they come. And not only economically, but politically."

One could argue that the FED bought time and saved some economic hardship, but saving capitalists from their mistakes may entail a price in terms of devaluation and ultimately inflation.

As an outsider it is interesting to observe. Some say the FED is in a difficult position. As an observer, the issue of who gains and who loses is often a useful aspect to consider.