Ship Sinking in Antarctic

[sailaway21]

Liberian registry in and of itself means little. Some of the newest, best-built ships in the world are Liberian or Panamanian flagged. Some of the oldest, most decrepit buckets capable of turning a dollar are Liberian registered. Back in the eighties, most of Carnival's cruise ships were worn out fire-traps over thirty years old and were not well built ships when new. A better method of judging the seaworthiness of a ship is the agency's standards she was built under; ABS, DetNorskeVeritas, etc... and the age of the ship. If she was built to ABS standards she will be more likely to have Class A (nearly fireproof) bulkheads and the like. If she's less than twenty years old she'll likely not have plating issues. Twenty to twentyfive years is the economic life of a ship. At that time, wasted plating and stress cracking begin to become an annual shipyard repair item, and who says they get 'em all? Trust me, that beautiful white cruise ship built in 1963 has issues, regardless of how nice a paint job she has on her.

I've sailed in many good old well built ships. They were all in the process of sinking to one degree or another; it's just a matter of age. The obvious problems were of little concern, it was the surprises that made sleep difficult. Every day that you did not find water some place that should be nicely dry was a good day. Even better when you found water with no fuel oil mixed in with it. Find out when and where your ship was built-it's your best assurance that you're not sailing in a ship that made it's last practical voyage the one before you embarked.

Soviet build quality was such an uneven thing that I cannot, in good conscience, recommend ever sailing in something from that era, at the risk of damning what might be a fine vessel otherwise.

And yes, punching a hole in the side of a ship is quite an easy thing to do. More so on an older ship.

A note on ship ownership. I'll bet that a whole sled team of lawyers would be unable to actually determine who owned that ship in less than a year. One and two ship companies are notoriously difficult to examine as to who actually owns the company. All you ever come up with is a slew of agents and you'll never actually find a telephone number with the actual company's name attached to it. And, if you're a betting man, you can bet there's a Greek in there someplace-he may be sitting next to you at the coffee shop but you'd never know he was a ship owner.

[Tartan34C]

I think we are talking about Explorer and she was built in 1969 in Nystad Finland as an expedition cruse ship. She was designed for ice and was rated as such. She has nothing to do with the USSR and isn’t a converted ice breaker. She is owned by Lars-Eric Lindblad and he is the one who started expedition cruising on small ships and this is the first example of the class.
All the best,
Robert Gainer

[Valiente]

An interesting comment in today's Toronto paper:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...ory/Front/home

"There is no clear picture yet of what sank the Explorer. The ship's captain called company owner Mr. Poon Tip by satellite phone shortly after the Explorer began taking on water. According to Mr. Poon Tip, the captain said there was no noticeable impact, and that the first sign of trouble was the water in the cabin.

The Explorer had radar to detect icebergs above water level, and side-scan sonar to spot ice or other objects below the surface. The captain was specially trained in polar operations. Although there was widespread speculation yesterday that the ship had hit an iceberg, Mr. Poon Tip said there was no basis for that conclusion.

"We don't know what the ship hit," he said. "There's just been a lot of speculation."

I'll speculate that the inner hull suffered some kind of failure first that went undetected, and that perhaps a weld failed on the outer hull just from age or fatigue. The whole article has snippets of technical information providing clues to those of you who've worked on bigger ships and who may also speculate, but with a better background from which to do so.

[sailaway21]

It's tough to even speculate based on the information available. Double hulling is controversial in it's effectiveness and execution. If you double hull in a cellular way you create small compartments which are difficult to monitor or maintain. If the cells are larger you risk additions of large quantities of water that can affect the ship's stabilitym through not only their weight but free surface effects. Perhaps the toughest issue to deal with from a naval architectural standpoint is whether to plumb those spaces. You create a hugely complex pipage system designed to be used perhaps once in it's lifetime. At the same time you create a veritable conduit network of piping capable of distributing water to numerous undesirable places. In any double-hulled ship you create a long-term maintenance nightmare where the insidious forces of corrosion work away unnoticed. As I mentioned previously, that is why the economic life of most ships is in the 20-25 year range. Rust indeed never sleeps.

It would be interesting to see the ship's plans. The inspection deficiencies noted in the article are rather routine items, easily remedied, that ship's may have as deficiencies after almost any inspection. Covered, self-righting lifeboats date only from the 1980's chemical tanker trade and sell for about what a similar sized Catalina does. I'd have them on such a ship, you'd have them on such a ship, but then we are not running that business and the boats present met code. One of the downsides to codifying everything is that once you meet the code it is considered prima facie evidence of safety. Note that covered lifeboats, which carry an air supply as well in the chemical trades, did not originate with building standards requirements. A few somebodies in the business decided that were there a collision and tons of, say, PVC were spilled what good would surviving the drowning be if only to die of liver failure shortly thereafter from the inhalation of PVC fumes.

A speculation not unrelated to Val's. On board ship it is a constant battle in some cases to keep certain normally closed watertight doors closed. Often in the engine room it is discovered or perceived that it is cooler if one of these doors is hooked open. The answer is always that we'd close it if there was a problem. That answer is insufficient if the problem involves engine room flooding or the incapacitation of personnel there. Similarly, manhole covers can be removed for inspection or work in spaces. Often at the end of the day the cover is left off as work will continue on the morrow. And with 32 1-1/4 nuts holding the manhole cover down to the deck or bulkhead it is time consuming and tedious to replace and remove them yet again. It is also true though that you are betting that nothing will happen that night where the cross connection of compartments will not become a threatening situation by chance flooding. Ad then there's always the possibility that a manhole cover got left off leaving the shipyard last time. Happens all the time in this "not my job" world.

I'd suspect Val is close to the mark, we'll probably never know, and the actual ingress point might be difficult to locate on a ship laid out for passenger carriage due to the presence of cabin bulkheads, overheads, and hull ceilings.

As TSteele says, they got there monies worth. No boring old stories from Grandma and Grampa about penguins and seals for them! Thank God things were no worse and the crew competent.

[T34C]

Originally Posted by sailaway21

Liberian registry in and of itself means little. Some of the newest, best-built ships in the world are Liberian or Panamanian flagged. Some of the oldest, most decrepit buckets capable of turning a dollar are Liberian registered. Back in the eighties, most of Carnival's cruise ships were worn out fire-traps over thirty years old and were not well built ships when new. A better method of judging the seaworthiness of a ship is the agency's standards she was built under; ABS, DetNorskeVeritas, etc... .

Sway- You are correct, but many of these ships get "modified" here and there as they get older. Because of these modifications they can no longer meet the more strengent requirements of many countries and thus end up getting flagged in countries like Liberia. See Windjammer Schooner "Fantome" October 1998.

[sailaway21]

T34C,
You are most correct. I also failed to point out the reason for the desirability of Liberian or Panamanian registry for ships. Taxes are the biggie and since you can register under either flag while only travelling a few blocks from your NYC office the largest merchant fleet in the world flies the Liberian flag. It may be the largest source of income for that miserable country.

[TXS-ALAMO]

The most unlucky couple were interviewed this morning. They were on their honeymoon in Costa Rica and were evacuated because of a tropical storm and went home to Malibu, California to find their new house in the wildfire zone and then left for their trip to Antartica. Hope their marriage is not as disaster prone!

[AjariBonten]

Originally Posted by TXS-ALAMO

The most unlucky couple were interviewed this morning. They were on their honeymoon in Costa Rica and were evacuated because of a tropical storm and went home to Malibu, California to find their new house in the wildfire zone and then left for their trip to Antartica. Hope their marriage is not as disaster prone!

That sounds like an urban-legend in the making. Have you got a link? If true, I'd love to document it!

[T34C]

Did anyone else hear the report that the ship in question was going to Antartica with a bunch of people wanting to "document global warming". (Right before the ship sank with 48,000 gallons of diesel on board.)

[TrueBlue]

One of my biggest clients and his wife went on an Antarctic expedition on the Explorer earlier this year. Upon returning, they both attended a site meeting wearing the signature, insulated red parkas with the ship's emblem embroidered on the breast - oblivious to what was to occur a few months later.

Good timing on his part in booking that trip, I'd say. But good timing was what gave him such immense wealth. I'll bet those parkas are worth a lot more now than when they purchased them.