Higher education

[sailaway21]

College education costs continue to skyrocket, making the spot oil market seem a sea of tranquility by comparison. Why? Well, at least with oil and gas you've got some options. You can buy a smaller car, etc... What are you going to do, of a similar nature, about tuition costs?

Of all the things we're squawking about, you hardly hear a murmer about this issue. And at around 15% increase per annum we're not talking small potatoes either.

It's our fault to the extent that we believe that college is essential. I'm not going to argue that point. If you can find a good paying career without a college degree i'd encourage you to do so. But, I suspect, that for every one of those jobs, there are 99 jobs with similar pay where you need that four year degree.

As usual, I find the government at fault. This article explains the how and why of that pretty well. http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=12710

The one thing I know for sure is that market forces are not being allowed to work in the tuition business and, if Teddy Roosevelt were alive, he'd be busting up some universities.

[bestfriend]

Some local fuel for your fire:
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?sec...cal&id=5945835

[bestfriend]

So what you're saying here is that if the students can pay it, the schools will charge it. And the students can pay it, because the government will loan it to them. The government getting in the way of the market. But, would banks step in if the government did not?

[camaraderie]

Hey Sway...if you think those #'s are bad...you oughta see 4 years of med school!!

[artbyjody]

Its because higher education has to be profitable... some things to keep in mind:

1. When a college gives out degrees to those that seek those higher in demand degrees or jobs similar but pay higher than average wages at entry level and beyond - the educational value is therefore deemed to be higher because the results allow those to enter at a higher level.

2. When the cost of living goes up - albeit fuel, housing, etc... colleges also compete on that market level. Hence why the UW in WA is seeking the same compensation package that the Sonics failed to get - figuring they are local and worth more because to live here requires more...

3. Most are state run and as a result very well tied into the political system as status determining reasons. If Harvard for example didn't cost as much would it be as elusive? No... (I have no idea if it is state run but the principles apply)... The difference can eloquently be related to two people dressed in the same attire, making the same money - but one drives a Honda Corolla and the other a BMW M3... who wouldn't pay more to go to a school that offers that ability to get a M3 over a coralla. Military recruitment for positions such as Nuclear engineer, special forces, pilot etc use the same principle...

So if the costs of living goes up - it is natural evolution that a college tuition will as well - beyond just the standard costs of education - but also the promise to deliver a better career outlook upon graduation...

[sailaway21]

bf nails it.

jody,
The increases are far and away above any cost of living or inflationary increases. The number I've heard is approximately 15% per year on average. Have you been getting an annual increase of 15% for your labors or do you know ANYBODY who has? Any business would be quite happy with that annual increase in revenues per unit sold, except they're lucky to keep up with inflation, mostly due to market competition forces.

Actually, most college grads, upon graduation, start out at a lower salary than they'd be making had they been exclusively in the work force the preceding 4 years. Some grads actually take a pay cut from the job they have during matriculation to enter their chosen field of work. It's down the road that their salary passes the non-college educated worker.

The converse of "if you tax it, you get less of it" is "if you subsidize it, you get more of it". We're not subsidizing college, we're subsidizing college expenses, a difference not without a distinction.

[RAGNAR]

There is nothing more dangerous to a free nation that surrendering education at all levels to government.

BF did nail the issue: once Gov interferes it's over. It does that by supplying seemingly unlimited funds at first and, when the schools adjust to the new stream, setting conditions for the money.

Note that this is the same mechanism responsible for the skyrocketing of health care costs.

+++

To show how little understanding of economics our politicians have: back in the Clinton days, when, under the pretense of carrying for the uninsured, they tried to nationalize healthcare, not negotiate with private insurance companies to cover the uninsured, they figured that one of the issues they had to deal with was the number of doctors the US was graduating (they knew how many was too many in the same way they decided what the Earth's temperature should be, which species should be around and at what numbers; the same way FDR knew to adapt policies that actually worsened the Great Depression, a Depression brought about by crating the FedRes; the same way the British Empire knew that Mercantilism, one of the mechanisms that led to their implosion, was the proper course, etc.) So, they started paying medical schools to cut back on the number of students they took in.

But shorting the supply of talent has at least two economic consequences:

-- A reduction of the mind power fighting to improve things, said mind power being the only way to constantly reduce costs and improve services.

-- By shrinking the number of grads, they raised the prices these kids could demand.

Solution?

Import even more medical graduates from everywhere, paying them that higher wage and, since we tolerate almost all research being done by publicly funded universities, cutting down on the rate of improvement and the nation's dominance of that field.

THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO ANYTHING!

Further, the idea that people that either don't know or want to do what they should at crucial moments, can know who to elect to show them the way and/or compel them to do the right thing, and will, is a contradiction at a 101-level -- thanks to our education system, few of us hear alarms when such contradictions are embraced.

[T37Chef]

Community College's...they actually teach you something, and at the bargain price of $90 a credit, well at least at Anne Arundel CC

http://www.aacc.edu/

[RAGNAR]

Originally Posted by T37Chef

Community College's...they actually teach you something, and at the bargain price of $90 a credit, well at least at Anne Arundel CC

http://www.aacc.edu/

Sort of true, in that they're publicly funded to make that $90/credit possible, and that money would be better managed by private entities.

Even with Gov involvement, private, specialized training centers are graduating people with far more skill and experience through internships than Community Colleges.

[T37Chef]

There is no question that Community Colleges could benefit from better $$ management, it amazes me how much is wasted.

That said, one of the core goals of a community college is opportunity for all, access to education. Most private training centers don't want or have the support initiatives in place to offer assistance to the less fortunate, learner disabilities, financial, etc.

An example...

"With learning as its central mission, Anne Arundel Community College strives to embody the basic convictions of the American democratic ideal: that individuals be given full opportunity to discover and develop their talents, energy and interests, to pursue their unique potentials and to achieve an intellectually, culturally and economically satisfying relationship with society. "

"Students enrolling in associate degree transfer or career programs, certificate career programs or participating in continuing education offerings can be assured that the college, as an accredited, public, comprehensive, open-admission institution of higher learning with affordable tuition, is, within the limits of its resources, vigorously committed to:

• Fostering excellence of teaching and learning for students, faculty and staff;
• Offering credit programs and continuing education courses in a variety of formats responsive to a multiplicity of community needs;
• Providing for learners at various preparation points, from pre-college to postgraduate, a range of integrated credentialing opportunities;
• Providing appropriate services in support of academic success and student development;
• Affording Anne Arundel County residents an opportunity to pursue higher education and lifelong learning;
• Providing a campus climate which invites the diversity of the community's population;
• Upholding rigorous and fair standards of student achievement;
• Promoting lifelong learning;
• Providing a source for intellectual, cultural and physical vitality in the community;
• Planning for efficient allocation of college resources and for institutional effectiveness;
• Maintaining a spirit of collegiality among the various sectors of the college; and
• Promoting county and state economic development by providing a variety of educational services and training programs to business and industry in both the private and not-for-profit sectors and to national, state and local government agencies."

http://www.aacc.edu/aboutaacc/vision.cfm