Terrestrial Woodworking Q

[RAGNAR]

I need to build new kitchen and bath cabinets -- looong overdue.

"We" -- cough! -- setteld on mapple veneers over an engineered material. Has anyone ever used marine ply in this application?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[soulesailor]

marine ply would be overkill for interior kitchen cabinets. If you have already decided on maple veneer over some sort of engineered material what would you use the ply for, anyway? If you need to use ply use cabinet grade, it has more plys per sheet so it responds better to being routed. Marine ply differs from household ply because its inner plys are full 4x8 sheets, no butt joints and no footballs, making it structurally strong enough to be used for boat making. For a kitchen or bathroom cabinet grade is what you want.

[chucklesR]

You'd save quite a bit of money if you used regular grade plywood for the backs and sides, toe kicks and such. Use Cabinet grade on doors and drawers only.
Anywhere you don't have to do a joint more complex than a rabbet or groove regular ply is fine. I'd estimate marine ply would add 30% to the cost, and not add much to the value/strength.

Regular grade a/b ply that is - assuming you have a source for maple ply. If you are going to do the veneer work yourself I have no experience with that, don't know if the b side would be smooth enough. You'd want the A side as the interior, veneer the b side.

[danjarch]

Veneer over engineered wood means veneer over Low Density Fiberboard or Medium Density Fiberboard. Commonly know was particul board or compressed board. It was designed for cabinet makers and does not warp as much as plywood. Assuming your planning to use standard sizes for your cabinets and not planning on building it your self, I recommend you buy the prebuilt variety avilable at HD or Lowes.

It will cost about 10% more then the materials to build your own and you don't have to build them. This is still true when you drift up the scale to the higher priced and better built ones. Using Marine plywood is a big overkill. Just as is probably the case now, you or the next owner will get tired of the cabinets your going to put in before they fall apart. Even now, you could probably refinish, repair and update what you've already got, but would rather replace them instead.

This will be true again in twenty to thirty years, by then styles as well as sizes and uses will have shifted enough that what ever you put in now, will be ripped out and replaced.

[Stillraining]

So I could have gotten veneer particle board...now you tell me...I just finally got use to the stained sawdust look...

[RAGNAR]

Thanks, people.

I thought about MDF and hardboard, but the yard told me that it would be vulnerable to the moisture of a frequently used kitchen, let alone a bath. I always thought this stuff was way more stable than that so I looked at a few woodworkers' sites. Here's a response that seems to capture a frequent concern I read (not imply that because several posters believe it, it's true):

What I have run into is moisture problems in the environment where the MDF is installed. DO NOT put it in a bathroom, and think twice about installing it over any surface that will see standing water or even a wet mop - such as kitchens. The moisture will find its way behind the moulding and the MDF will swell like a sponge, the only fix is replacement.

The only reason I thought of marine ply was to, a) get some experience with the stuff, b) avoid any moisture issues, c) since it's stronger than regular ply, perhaps I could go one size thinner.

As for the wonderful cabinets at HD and Lowes: I was impressed with the value, but I'd like to get more experience doing this sort of thing on my own. I also think that I'd get a better finish if I build them myself, also a skill I'd like to further.

Thanks again, guys.

[danjarch]

Rags, if your planing to build them your self. Build a seperate base. The toe kick is about 3" above the floor. You can build a seperate toe kick out of PT or plastic 5/4. You can work the plastic with standard wood working tools then cover it in a veneer. That would give you the best of both worlds. Then switch to either cabinet ply or mdf for the cabinets them self.

I did that for one guys garage cabinets. Even if you use marine plywood. the bottoms will swell unless they are completly encapsulated in epoxy or some other water barrier.

[TrueBlue]

Good luck with your project Ragnar, sounds to me like you have the skills and ambition for the job and if so, it should be lots of fun and very rewarding.

I took on the task of designing and custom building our kitchen cabinets and built-ins (as well as two baths) about 20 years ago. My design preference back then was for an original modernist style, but using fine materials and joinery techniques. All edges were designed to be banded with solid hardwoods. My professional training and architectural experiences, led me to specify rift-sawn hardwood veneer over 4 x 8 lumber-core panels.

The relatively large door panels forced me to cancel out plywoods, since they are too unstable, in terms of warpage. Engineered cores, such as particle board and MDF are well known to swell up under wet or damp exposure, and OSB (oriented strand board) outgasses urea formaldehyde poisons and doesn't lend itself well to milling and veneering.

The clear polyurethane cabinet finish is beginning to show some wear in spots and will be due for re-coating this summer. But aside from that - the kitchen looks nearly as good as it did 20 years ago, and I can still proudly boast that I built it.

[RAGNAR]

I like the idea of a plastic base, Dan. Thanks

TB, thanks for sharing your experiences and for the encouragement. (Do you need help with the refinishing? LoL)

[chucklesR]

I built my entire workshop out of MDF to save money. Painted it, then sealed it in poly - It's 8 years old now and shows no moisture problems at all. It's heavy as a cow tho - so keep that in mind especially for upper cabinets.

Plan on more time spent finishing (stain, poly etc..) than any other part of the project - and try and make sure you have a very very clean workspace when you get to that part.
My latest project - desk with cabinets for the Admiral - Chocolate stain over Cherry. Pardon the 'clutter' - it's her desk. I'm still working the lighting, and cooling for the desktop PC in the far lower base unit.