Over 5000???

[bwalker42]

Originally Posted by camaraderie

Why do you say research is illegal? Here's 75 citations of research papers:
NIDA - Research Report Series - Marijuana Abuse

Hey
cam your right, this is easier than I thought...

New Study Indicates Cannabis-Associated Psychosis Risk Is Minimal
Category: News and Politics

Albany, NY: There is little increased risk of incidences of psychosis or schizophrenia stemming from the use of cannabis, according to clinical data to be published in the journal Human Psychopharmacology.
The study found that participants who used cannabis, but no other illicit substances did not score higher on a Schizotypal Personality Questionnaire (SPQ) compared to those respondents who used legal drugs only. However, those participants who used cannabis and other illicit drugs such as ecstasy and cocaine did score higher on the SQP tests.
The study's results contradict widely reported news reports alleging that marijuana use is associated with a much higher risk of psychosis.
"Some previous work on the link between marijuana use and psychotic symptoms has not controlled for other drug use at all," said NORML Advisory Board member Mitch Earleywine, who co-authored the study. "Other studies only use rough measures of lifetime use of a few drugs. We focused on nine different drugs and emphasized the stimulants, which work in a neurotransmitter system linked closely to psychosis."
A prior review of cannabis and psychosis conducted by Britain's Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs (ACMD) stated in a 2006 release that, "the current evidence suggests, at worst, that using cannabis increases lifetime risk of developing schizophrenia by one percent."
Earleywine concurs with that assessment. "In my opinion, if cannabis has any impact on psychosis at all it would only appear in folks who have a genetic predisposition who also use heavily early in life," he said.
NORML published a white paper last May which called for the regulation of cannabis as a means to discourage its use by patients who may be predisposed to certain mental illnesses.
Advocates for tougher marijuana laws in Britain have been trumpeting the pot-and-psychosis link as a major impetus for Prime Minister Gordon Brown's expected move to elevate cannabis from a Class C to a Class B drug. The ACMD declined to back the move in a recent meeting on April 4, with 20 out of the panel's 23 experts deciding there was not sufficient new scientific evidence to justify a change.

"Polydrug Use, Cannabis Use, and Psychosis-Like Symptoms," will appear in Human Psychopharmacology.

[camaraderie]

A study co-authored by a director of NORML does not exactly give one cofort in a detached scientific viewpoint! But there does not appear to be any impediment to conducting serious research by serious scientists which was my point.

[bwalker42]

OK Cam,
What about this from the Schaffer Library of Drug Policy??

Oh the pages of history...

Cannabis Indica in Pharmaceuticals, 1938

CANNABIS INDICA IN PHARMACEUTICALS

The Journal of the Medical Society of New Jersey Volume XXXV - Jan.-Dec. 1938
In the article on cannabis indica prescriptions in the December journal, page 748, the Editor made the statement, "It is hardly probable that any physician in New Jersey will have occasion to prescribe the drug." However, an article in the December issue of the Bulletin of the Bronx County Medical Society, New York City, calls attention to twenty-eight pharmaceutical preparations which contain cannabis, -- many of them with no indication of its presence. The list was compiled by Mr. Marty Sasman, of the Professional Relations Committee of the Bronx County Pharmaceutical Association, and is as follows:

(1) Cannabis; Cannabis seeds; Extract Cannabis
(2) Fluid Extract Cannabis; Powder Extra Extract Cannabis; Tincture Cannabis
(3) Cannabinon; Cannobene
(4) Corn Collodluni (Squibb) ; Corn Collodium P. R. B. I.
(5) Collodium Salicvllcum Compound N. F. Cosadein (Parke Davis & Co.)
(6) Elixir Chloral & Potassium Bromide Compound N. F.
(7) Elixir Bromides & Belledonna Compound (Lilly)
(8) Chloranodvne; Elixir Passiflora Compound
(9) Cannabin Compound, Red; Cannabin Compound, Green
(10) Allxttire Chloroform & Morphine Compound N. F. V.
(11) Tablets Chloranodyne; Tablets Chloranodvne half strength
(12) Tablets Sedative Dr. Brown; Tablets Sedative Modified "A" (Lilly)
(13) Tablets Cannabin Compound (Stoddard)
(14) Tablets Hvdrastine Compound (B. & W.)
(15) Tablets Menovarian
(16) Tablets Orchic Compound (National Drug Co.)
(17) Tablets Gano-dyne
(18) Cannabin Tannate (B. & W.) (Known as Hydrastina Comp. B. & W.)
(19) Pill Neuralgic (Brown Sequard)
(20) Colic Mixture Veterinary (Parke Davis & Co.)
(21) Utroval (Piscidia Compound) (Parke Davis & Co.)
(22) Syrup Tolu Compound (Lilly)
(23) Syrup Lobelia & Tolu Compound (Lilly)
(24) T.T. Cannabis 1/4 Gr.
(25) Hypno Bromic Compound; Neurosine
(26) Bromidia; Bromidonia Elixir (McNeil)
(27) MIentholated Cough Balsam (P. D. Co)

This list was compiled by a member of the Pharmaceutical Association of the Bronx. In order that a physician may possess any preparation on the list, or write a prescription for it, he must first obtain a special license from a collector of Internal Revenue, and pay a fee of one dollar annually.

And,

What about other prescription drugs that have proven to be a lot more harmful than good to a human body??? Those harmful drugs were APPROVED by the food and drug administration.. You know the ones that made a lot of humans get sick and die,

And, I am opposed to the animal rights activist's who oppose animal testing. I believe animals should be tested on first, humans lives are much more important.

So my question becomes, Who are the people that are not opposed to the use of cannabis themselves, (may I remind you of the Presidents that smoked, and you can never convince me that Clinton did not inhale) that are opposed to THEM using it their selves?

I ask this question because it deserves an answer.
B

[wind_magic]

I think Mary Jane should be decriminalized.

I don't smoke it, never have, but I am really tired of spending money (taxes) to lock up people because they smoke MJ, grow MJ, distribute MJ, etc. I mean who really cares. Talk about a victimless crime, have you ever seen an MJ smoker ? Eyes all glazed over, flushed red etc, it is hard to imagine someone who would be less of a threat to society. Maybe they'd seem threatening if you owned a pizza parlor.

I find it difficult to understand why we still pay to lock people up for dealing in this stuff. Who cares. I vote we start shutting down prisons and use some of that money for the public good, or here is an idea - let's not take it from tax payers in the first place. Yes, I really do want to stop spending money that is currently being wasted on stoners. They freaking win already. We give up, let them have their weed. Let's just declare victory in the war on drugs and get on with our lives.

[Giulietta]

bwalker42...

OK..

If God wanted us to be doped heads, we would all be born with pipes in our mouth wouldn't we??

I mean, even a God deovoted lady like your self would understand that..right?? otherwise we'de be all smoking dope at church...

The problem is not if its good or not..the problem is it causes addiction, and addiction leads to other substances, which leads to loss of orientation, loss of responsability. crime etc.....it's simple.

I have the example of Holland, where it's legal and all good, BUT...everyone with brains is leaving the Country..it became the Disney World of World junkies...bad..really bad..and they don't know how to stop it now..it's a train wreck....please learn with the mistakes of others....

[camaraderie]

B...
I am NOT arguing that Cannabis does not have some good pharmacological uses and properties. I am not arguing in favor of our present federal laws regarding its' use. I am open to reasonable changes for sound medical reasons but like any drug...the medical community and the FDA should set the rules. It is quite clear to me that Cannabis is not in the same class as opiates (which ALSO have their medical uses!) and the old scare stories have little value. But it must also be said that Cannabis use carries REAL risks as well ...as is documented by many of the cited articles I pointed you to.
As Giu says...if you want proof of this visit Amsterdam...or just check in on some of my old college buddies.

Windy...we've stopped throwing people in jail for use pretty much and focused efforts on the big players. The individuals going to jail for use now are the ones driving cars...as it should be.

[wind_magic]

Originally Posted by Giulietta

The problem is not if its good or not..the problem is it causes addiction, and addiction leads to other substances, which leads to loss of orientation, loss of responsability. crime etc.....it's simple.

I have the example of Holland, where it's legal and all good, BUT...everyone with brains is leaving the Country..it became the Disney World of World junkies...bad..really bad..and they don't know how to stop it now..it's a train wreck....please learn with the mistakes of others....

People in the U.S. have a really weird idea of what Holland is like, that's for sure. I have heard people saying, hey, let's go to Holland so we can do this-and-that, all kinds of naughty stuff they can't do at home. But what they don't seem to understand is that Holland is _NOT_ filled with a bunch of stoners, or prostitutes, or anything like that. If you go to Holland looking for a laid back bunch of folks who are going to kick back and party with you then you had better find some Americans there to hang around with or you are going to be sadly disappointed. The reason Holland allows smoking MJ and prostitution and things of that nature is _NOT_ because they approve, it's because they are such a devoted serious CONSERVATIVE people that they are even willing to put up with prostitution and drugs in order to protect their rigid philosophy of protecting individual freedom. Your average person in Holland is about as fun and easy going as a death in the family.

[bwalker42]

So my question becomes, Who are the people, that are not opposed to the use of cannabis themselves... that are opposed to THEM using it their selves?

I did ask that question didn't I.

The Indian Hemp Drugs Commission Report (1894), comprising some seven volumes and 3,281 pages, is by far the most complete and systematic study of marijuana undertaken to date. Because of the rarity and, perhaps, the formidable size of this document, the wealth of information contained in it has not found its way into contemporary writings on this subject. This is indeed unfortunate, as many of the issues concerning marijuana being argued in the United States today were dealt with in the Indian Hemp Drugs Commission Report

I would like to see this report.
I want to see this report.
I need to see this report.
How can get my hot little hands on this report??



NE whoo


[Quoting Giu]

bwalker42...

OK..

If God wanted us to be doped heads, we would all be born with pipes in our mouth wouldn't we??
No.

I mean, even a God deovoted lady like your self would understand that..right?? otherwise we'de be all smoking dope at church...
When you go to the congregation of the upright, and you are on drugs of any sort, for whatever reason. And you want to be prayed for. You will be, and God will move on you, and in your life, for the better. Sometimes it's instantanious and that's called a miracle, sometimes it takes a while longer. But even then, God works through love.
Free will, that's how love works.
See that??
True Christians Never shun the weak, So what does the Word that lives say??
Confess your faults one to another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed.

It doesn't go like this;
Confess your faults one to another, then go blow it out of proportion so you can ruin a person's life, and try to make yourself look good or better than the one you ruined.


The problem is not if its good or not..the problem is it causes addiction, and addiction leads to other substances, which leads to loss of orientation, loss of responsability. crime etc.....it's simple.

(this is a very generalized blanket statement and impossible to attach it's description on every human who has tried, or experimented with, or uses cannabis)
Not all like chemical drugs, (prescription or otherwise)
Not all like alchohol,
Not all like nicotine
Not all like cannabis

That's why they ask, "what's your drug of choice?"
The problem with cannabis laws not being reformed is this.
It keeps the drugs on the streets. in the hands of those who do not care about our children.
I say, when the laws are changed, and they will be, there needs to be very real curriculum stating the facts in a very true easy to understand form, about prescription and non prescription use of drugs, about communication between parents and children regarding all drugs and the repercussions of using them, not just cannabis.
The thing I like about Holland is there has not been 1 child overdose on drugs by using them for recreation, in 18 years. And that's because they are free to go into a clinical situation and get their drug of choice up to 3x per day in a controlled environment.

I like it when people don't die. Specially kids. If they have made up their minds they are going to try something, and no one can talk them out of it...
Free will, see that??

I have the example of Holland, where it's legal and all good, BUT...everyone with brains is leaving the Country..it became the Disney World of World junkies...bad..really bad..and they don't know how to stop it now..it's a train wreck....please learn with the mistakes of others. [Ending Gui's quote.]

I understand where you are coming from Giu... however, God did make the herbs, remember?? Gen 1:29... I can throw some other valid relevant scriptures in there if you want.

B...
I am NOT arguing that Cannabis does not have some good pharmacological uses and properties. I am not arguing in favor of our present federal laws regarding its' use. I am open to reasonable changes for sound medical reasons but like any drug...the medical community and the FDA should set the rules. It is quite clear to me that Cannabis is not in the same class as opiates (which ALSO have their medical uses!) and the old scare stories have little value. But it must also be said that Cannabis use carries REAL risks as well ...as is documented by many of the cited articles I pointed you to.
As Giu says...if you want proof of this visit Amsterdam...or just check in on some of my old college buddies. your old college buddies could be a scary thought Cam, (chuckling) but you are looking really, really good!
B

[Giulietta]

To me 2 simple words suffice:

It's Illegal

And that's enough for me. I stay away from it and God help ME keep MY kids away from it. It's all I have to say.

[sailaway21]

Originally Posted by wind_magic

People in the U.S. have a really weird idea of what Holland is like, that's for sure. I have heard people saying, hey, let's go to Holland so we can do this-and-that, all kinds of naughty stuff they can't do at home. But what they don't seem to understand is that Holland is _NOT_ filled with a bunch of stoners, or prostitutes, or anything like that. If you go to Holland looking for a laid back bunch of folks who are going to kick back and party with you then you had better find some Americans there to hang around with or you are going to be sadly disappointed. The reason Holland allows smoking MJ and prostitution and things of that nature is _NOT_ because they approve, it's because they are such a devoted serious CONSERVATIVE people that they are even willing to put up with prostitution and drugs in order to protect their rigid philosophy of protecting individual freedom. Your average person in Holland is about as fun and easy going as a death in the family.

Where Windy got the notion that Holland is a hot-bed of conservatism is beyond me. While the good Dutch burghers are indeed a dour lot they are also very liberal. They seem to be willing to protect the liberal idea of individual freedom right up to their very own extermination; witness the recent difficulties in reconciling Islamism with Holland's liberalism. There are rumours of small pockets of conservatism within Friesland!