Supreme Court rules on 2nd

[RAGNAR]

All this talk got me thinking about the Cheytac series of rifles again. One call to the manufacturer ended the buzz, as there isn't a single range around NYMetro that could accommodate the range of these things. (They can be specified to handle as much as a 1.5 mile range with sniper accuracy.) That, and they cost a fortune.

CHEYTAC - USA

[Zanshin]

Ragnar - as a prior range owner let me tell you it isn't the distance that is the caliber limiting factor, but the type of backstop. You can always put together a target at 50ft to simulate 500 yards, but you need to stop the bullet afterwards and most steel backstops aren't geared towards that kind of energy dispersal.

[knothead]

Originally Posted by RAGNAR

Would you be less ambivalent about this, knothead, if we substituted "reason" for "logic", or do you see the two as near-identical synonyms?



Or what morals one accepts as valid?

No, Yes and if you say so.

[hellosailor]

Looking-
"The real reason for the Second Amendment, is because you hide behind the First Amendment to say such vile and inflammatory comments, that you need to be armed to protect yourself from the people you piss off. "
Not quite. In fact, the founding fathers discussed this openly and the most telling quote is the one that no one wants to mention. That the ugliest thought would be the need to revolt against a bad government AGAIN but without the arms needed to do so.
The purpose of the Second Amendment, and the inclusion of the militia clause, was never debated until modern times, when people had been brainwashed into thinking "militia" was a dirty word, rather than part and parcel of your citizenship. Every US citizen is a militia member--by law. Both state and federal law, dual service required, not optional.
Folks who haven't studied the politics of our Civil War and the social problems immediately after it, will never understand why there has been a hundred+ year intentional campaign to denigrate the militia in the process of federalizing powers after that war.

Zanshin-
In the metroNYC area, backstops don't count at ranges. Five or ten years ago there was a problem at a major range next door (Huntington township range, Nassau County) which shut down all operations for 2(?) years because someone got hit with what might have been a flyer from a .22 a mile away at a park. Part of the redesign was intended to ensure no one would be able to aim OVER the backstop, which is typically the side of a sand pit.
But when you are talking large calibers...designing an efective backstop that also allows for the necessary recovery and removal of bullets from time to time, is not economically feasible. Considering what a 50 caliber will do to an engine block at a thousand yards? Uh-uh, not at any range in any urban area. (You know any good backstop for 50 cals, besides "the enemy" ? )

[uspirate]

Originally Posted by Zanshin

You can always put together a target at 50ft to simulate 500 yards, but you need to stop the bullet afterwards and most steel backstops aren't geared towards that kind of energy dispersal.

here in Vegas we have an indoor rifle range 50 yds. You can rent a machinegun for $50 and you can sight in up to 30.06 but they claim it will stop a 50 cal round. i sighted in my M1 Garand there a few years back.
American Shooters Supply

[RAGNAR]

Originally Posted by Zanshin

Ragnar - as a prior range owner let me tell you it isn't the distance that is the caliber limiting factor, but the type of backstop. You can always put together a target at 50ft to simulate 500 yards, but you need to stop the bullet afterwards and most steel backstops aren't geared towards that kind of energy dispersal.

Thanks, Zanshin.

They did offer to let me use their range -- it's 2/3s the way across the country!

[RAGNAR]

Originally Posted by knothead

No, Yes and if you say so.

That's Spock-level clarity -- thanks!

;-)

[zz4gta]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

(You know any good backstop for 50 cals, besides "the enemy" ? )

Good old VA clay. Quantico VA will let ya shoot 50's if you arrange it ahead of time. They have to notify the FAA and make it a no fly zone for the day. You get enough dirt, the bullet will stop.

[Zanshin]

uspirate - I know, I used to supply them with MG ammo The backstop takes a real beating and only one bay allows rifle calibers.

(back to the regularly scheduled 2nd Amendment thread)

[SEMIJim]

Originally Posted by ebs001

Rather than criticize, give us your solution.

Ok, but you won't like it. It's the antithesis to modern "liberalism." It starts with individual responsibility. Everything else grows from that.

Originally Posted by ebs001

Other countries with gun control laws are doing waaay better,

We have gun control laws. Reams of them. And no: They're not doing "waaay" better--not all of them, anyway. I pointed that out, and presented proof, way back, IIRC. Which brings me to my next point...

Originally Posted by ebs001

but you'd have to be loonie to think there was any connection.

Attempting to debate or discuss with you is futile, ebs001. You completely disregard your opponents' arguments. The assertion you made above, and this one, are examples. As with the other one, I've already responded to this one: Again: Not a single credible study has ever been able to establish a causal relationship between the availability of firearms and crime. Not a one. Not anywhere. Not ever.

Originally Posted by ebs001

If you will stop calling me a gun hater...

I have never called you a "gun hater." I don't know if you hate guns. Don't care. I do believe you're misguided. I do believe you haven't actually studied the issues at hand, but are merely repeating the pap the dominant media regurgitates. I believe you don't understand the logical fallacy of post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Originally Posted by ebs001

...I won't mention penis size.

Good going . If you had any credibility before now, you just managed to obliterate it.

Originally Posted by ebs001

... but for now I do not see any other solution on the horizon.

You're not offering any solutions. You're just repeating what you've heard.

Jim