Reality Check

[sailingdog]

I've been told that I'm a bit negative to some of the newbies on this forum...

Personally, I think that some of the recent posts require someone to say something other than it's gonna all work out, cause some of these guys have no clue about what they are getting themselves into. They don't even have the basic knowledge of sailing terms and no experience sailing in many cases.

A good example is the guy who asks:

I have a 52 foot sail boat, but no mast. I do have some sails:

32' by 27' by 16' (corner of 16 and 32 is labeled "bottom foot")

37' by 41' by 10.5' (jib?)

48' by 48' by 24 (main sail?)

Can someone help me figure out what kind of rigging I can do with that and how tall my main mast needs to be.

He doesn't bother to mention the following rather important facts:

• The boat is a 52' Ferrocement custom design that has never been rigged with a mast.
• The sails were bought but never USED on the boat, and may not even fit the boat when it is finally rigged.
• He doesn't even know what kind of sails they are.

If this guy goes out there without at least getting some basic sailing knowledge, what do you think his chances of surviving are???

What is laughable is that he thinks he can get a 52' ferrocement boat that has never sailed, working as a sailboat for under $20-30,000. What does a brand new 52' sailboat cost—about $500,000 at a minimum. How much of that cost is the sails, standing rigging, running rigging and the spars? I'd guess probably at least $100,000, if you count the winches and such as well. He obviously has never owned a boat or priced gear for a boat of that size. His halyard winches alone are probably going to cost $1500 each or so. Without a reality check, he's going to bankrupt himself trying to do this.

Also, personally, I don't want to be reading about how a 52' ferrocement boat washed up on shore and there were no traces of the captain and crew. Likewise, I don't want to have to read about how three people died trying to rescue the captain and crew of a 52' ferrocement boat that had no business being out where it was.

Another example, someone recently asked how much it was going to cost to move a boat. Here's his OP.

I need someone to move my boat, Sea Vixen, from Puerto Vallarta Mexico to Merritt Island Florida, ASAP.

Now, you'd think that if you're asking for a boat to be moved, you might want to include specifics on the boat as well as the move, especially if you say it needs to be moved ASAP. Yet this poster doesn't mention the type of boat, how it is equipped, when it needs to be moved by, when it needs to get to Florida by, or any of that relevant information. He was also asked, if he would be available to crew for the 4000 NM passage. Instead of answering the questions, he gets all pissy about not getting the answers he wants and says:

Well, I am serious. I thought enough people on here could look at a profile and figure out the obvious. Regarding the $600/day, this is outrageous, average quotes on trucking are $4K to $5K. I've already had an offer of $3,800 to sail the boat to Florida. For a lot of people this would be a once in a lifetime experience, using someone else's boat.

and

You know, I don't have available 10's of thousands, as apparently most of you have. My Rawson is in exceptional shape, the most recent survey was April of this year, her diesel has less than 800 hours. I've sailed her in Force 7 winds and seas most of you wouldn't even venture into. I've been on a boat since I was 4 years old, I've been boating and sailing for over 40 years. She's my boat and means a lot to me. I've received a couple of private messages that make a lot of you look like xxxx. There have been a couple of times that I have gotten real help from this site, but most of the time, it's a bunch of guys who get on here and see who can one up the next one on jokes and criticism.

I am going to ask one of the moderators to remove this thread and I'm deleting my account.

He supposedly has an offer to move the boat for $3800. If it is a good offer, he should shut up and get the boat moved, instead of complaining how expensive it is.... Bubb2 offerred to move the boat for $600 per day for himself and two experienced crew. The guy said Bubb2 was way overpriced... the OP doesn't have a clue what it costs to move a boat—and yet he's telling Bubb2 he's too expensive. Do the math. $600/3 = $200 per person. That's less than $10 per hour...since a delivery captain and crew is usually working 24/7 on a delivery.

Then there are the people who do this:

Originally Posted by runner

I am completely new to sailing. I still have not been on the water. I bought an old aluminum boat this weekend to restore. I am gonna be asking a lot of questions! Thanks in advance for any help provided!

Yet he goes to post this:

Originally Posted by runner

To those that don't understand jumping, fully aware of the risk of losing bigtime, then by all means go to your rest having never jumped if that is your choice! Leave the rest of us alone when we do please. For the folks that are worried about the poor rescue folks, you make me laugh almost too hard to read or type. The rescue folks would have paid for the chance to try to rescue him. They aren't accountants either!
If the choice is to dance or go home wishing you had danced to forever spend your days thinking about what might have been when you lay your head down at night, then I choose to dance. Yes, I fully expect to die dancing. That is the final victory. Going out doing the dream one way or another! The kid has some lumps and some questions now that an older hand can answer, but so far the dream is still alive!
Do you realize that young boys are afraid to climb ladders and trees these days, and that the fear follows them into adult life? Kids can't fight at school anymore so they meet somewhere without supervision in packs later that evening and two of them die to keep some kid from losing a fight he may have started in a safe place with supervision right there! Some people are ignorant enough to call that progress!! There are hundreds of examples of where such thinking leads to. My best friends from school all met me while trying to tear each other down, and we laugh about it to this day!. To see such things lost to those worried about what might happen, but too blind to see the actual results is maybe the biggest crime ever perpetrated against the people of our nation. We all must live as sheep or we are crazy and must be stopped today!
I spent some time walking the US when I was young with all my possesions in a bag. It was a glorious time. Got a few scars to show for it, and every single one is a treasured memory. Would I do it again looking back? Youy bet, and foir longer this time!
That youngum knows things he did not know before. He now has questions that the older folks can answer. Just because he learned those things some way other than in a book does not make him stupid, irresponsible, crazy, wrong, or any of the other negatives being thrown around here. It just means he chose to dance without lessons. Not much on training wheels myself!
Stuff happens, but then you die. Sounds like learning to enjoy the stuff part is in order!

on a thread where a guy left for Hawaii with only six months sailing experience to attempt a fall crossing of the Pacific in a 47-year-old boat that wasn't surveyed, inspected or prepped for the voyage and pulled the tab on his EPIRB when the rudder quadrant broke free from the stock. Mind you, the rudder and rudder stock weren't damaged by all accounts, and the boat could have been steered using an emergency tiller more likely than not.

BTW, this was my response to Runner:

Runner-

I'm going to have to call BS on you in this thread... given that your first post was in August of this year, and said:

Quote:

I really don't think you've got the experience to say jack about what kind of preparation is required for a trans-oceanic sailing voyage. Given that, at most, you've got two months of sailing experience, most likely on small inland lakes.

Anyone who compares being a combat medic in a war zone to being a merchant marine sailor that is being asked to save a RECREATIONAL BOATER TOO IGNORANT AND ILL-PREPARED TO BE OUT THERE is ludicrous at best.

The combat medic is rescuing a colleague, and one who supposedly has at least a bare minimum of training (boot camp) and the proper equipment (rifle, flak jacket, helmet, etc) for what they're doing. The wounded soldier is also REQUIRED TO BE THERE—IT IS HIS JOB.

This idiot was not required to be sailing across an ocean, much less doing so with his head up his backside. The merchant marine sailors who went to rescue him aren't being paid to do so, and aren't trained specifically to do so.

WTF... Yeah, sometimes I get a bit annoyed at the sheer stupidity of some of the posters on this site...but unlike some of the whiners here, I actually try to help most of the people I respond to out, even if it is with a good whack upside the head.

If you don't like the response you're getting to the questions you ask, learn to ask better questions. I've never nuked someone who asked an intelligent question that included the relevant information required to answer it, or supplied the information when asked. Check my posts... I haven't. I only nuke the really foolish and stupid people who don't have the common sense or brains God gave an ant.

I don't pretend to be politically correct. I also don't pull my punches—ever. If I think you're an idiot... I'll say so. If you don't like it, put me on your ignore list... I don't have time to coddle idiots—it is one thing to not know and be ignorant... it is another to be stupid... the first can be fixed, the second usually is permanent.

[xort]

Dog

I agree with your opinion about many of these posters. But I disagree with your methods.
Two things; you sometimes come down too hard too soon on some posters and your methods can turn off others who are just observers. From what I see, if you took 10% off the top you'd be about right.

Thanks for what you do here. Hope I haven't come down too hard on some of your responses recently.

Ed

[sander06]

I, too, have a very low tolerance for stupidity. I also have come to the conclusion that the majority of the people I've run across actually revel in their ignorance. My only concern is that I, in the end, become a bitter old man seeking retirement in Florida!!

Perhaps the best antidote is a good sense of humour... or a major dose of oxycodone!! Keep in mind that stupidity usually succumbs to it's own activities!!

Have a good one, Mate! You're doin' fine!!

[sander06]

P.S. My affirmation of your activities in no way implies that we are engaged or anything!!!

[sailingdog]

Xort-

I can see coming down about 7%... 10% would be way too much... Personally, some of these people are clearly going to be hazards to themselves and others on the water unless they get a clue in the process of getting out on the water... I'd prefer they get the hard lumps here on an internet forum, where the lumps are far less likely to kill them or their friends and family.

[sailingdog]

Unless you look this good:



I'd have to say no to you anyways...

Originally Posted by sander06

P.S. My affirmation of your activities in no way implies that we are engaged or anything!!!

[ckgreenman]

SD, I have no chance (or desire) of being engaged to you so I'm gonna tell you how I see it

To be honest, yes I think you're a bit harsh. I agree that a lot of people on here deserve a swift kick in the pants. However, there are others that truly have no clue and are coming here for answers but are often greeted a "Are you stupid or something" type attitude. I know it can be tough moderating a forum (i've done it). I just feel that the first contact people have on a forum should be positive and not degrading. if, after it has been determined the guy is a moron and won't listen to experience then by all means, lay into his a$$.

My $.02. save it or spend it how you wish

[JohnRPollard]

I am constantly impressed by the forbearance, restraint, and patience displayed by sailors, of all experience levels, when responding to these kinds of questions. I think it says a lot about sailors.

But sometimes we have to "call BS" when the OP is clearly steering for a reef. And we've all seen that some folks don't want to hear the answers they're given.

[zz4gta]

I agree, for some reason I find it funny that people post on a public, world wide internet forum looking for answers, and then fight with the people who give them answers they don't want.

Posting a link to "scary sailing footage" in the ocean might help some of these people re-think how prepared they are. However, I still believe in Natural selection, weather they weed themselves out on the water, rock climbing, bow hunting big game, whatever the case my be. Lots of dumb ways to kill yourself, and for some its only a matter of time.

[ckgreenman]

I agree but at the same time I think it's wrong to call BS on their first forum post. I know it's hard to believe but there are legitimate posters/contributors who fail to read guidelines and jump in with uninformed questions. I admit, I'm not the most knowledgeable when it comes to sailing but I do know boats in general. So when someone comes on with "What does this switch labeled 'bilge pump' do?" I do my best to answer the question and not tell the guy he's a idiot.