Sailnet Skiers, Stay Safe

farmboy · #1 (**permalink**) 12-17-2008

I know there are some skiers on this forum, so I thought I would point this out.

One Dead, One Injured In Sunday Avalanches In Utah And Colorado - OnTheSnow

I wanted to point this out because as a person who seeks out steep powder in bounds, I have never given much thought to avalanche safety. In the past, if its open, I'll ski it. I checked out some of the skiing forums, and there are some comments from back country skiers who are now considering wearing their beacons in bounds when avalanche danger is moderate or higher. It's something to think about. I don't think it will change the way that I ski, but I may look at avalanche training and safety equipment.

Regardless, apparently there are some very unstable snow conditions in many parts of the west that will persist for much of the season, so give it some thought and the go out there and have a blast.

blt2ski · #2 (**permalink**) 12-17-2008

Some area's have major avalanche control personal to control slopes. Jackson Hole is or was at one time the #1 area in US for in area avalanches, Alpental in Wa st, where I learned to ski, was/is #2. I've had an avalanche/snow slide take me out at Stevens pass one day a few yrs back. hit me from behind. glad it was small.

Took off down a shoot one day to hear my cousin yell at me from behind me. He was still at the top, but my skiing down caused the snow at the top to move! When you get a foot or two or more in a quick time, the area is ripe for avalanches!

marty

farmboy · #3 (**permalink**) 12-17-2008

Marty, obviously your perspective on the situation is better than mine. Living in the east, I don't hear about avalanches that don't make the national news. I stumbled on these ones by accident. I must say that I've always assumed, as I think many skiers do, that in bounds and open is safe. It certainly is very low risk, but now I'm starting to think that a beacon and some rescue training might be in order, because I plan to continue enjoying steep powder. Anyway, I won't be making a trip out west this year, so I've got some time to mull it over.

blt2ski · #4 (**permalink**) 12-17-2008

You are probably a bit shielded on the east coast. Not sure that a winter does not go by here in the NW US where there is not someone killed going out of bounds! Some yrs many, others none.

Then of course, we around here usually hear about the folks on the volcano's that need rescuing off due to some kind of winter storm or equal. There is a sign on Mt Rainier at the base of the Muir snow field with warnings about what you may or may not hit, one of the sentences "death may be an issue" or some such thing. Been a few yrs since I have been up there.

While avalanches are a part of the world I am in, including being an instructor for 30 yrs, training director for ski school I work for, most of us are probably not as knowledgeable as we should. Two roads over and thru the cascades were recently closed for the winter. Not worth keeping open, as there are too many avalanche chutes to control, cost too much etc.

Marty

sailingdog · #5 (**permalink**) 12-18-2008

The reason we're a bit shielded here is most of the snow on the east coast is relatively wet and packs down into something the consistency of concrete—eventually becoming ice... it doesn't move much after that.

Also, our mountains are a bit on the short and less steep side...and many don't go much above the treeline...

Quote:

Originally Posted by blt2ski

You are probably a bit shielded on the east coast. Not sure that a winter does not go by here in the NW US where there is not someone killed going out of bounds! Some yrs many, others none.

Then of course, we around here usually hear about the folks on the volcano's that need rescuing off due to some kind of winter storm or equal. There is a sign on Mt Rainier at the base of the Muir snow field with warnings about what you may or may not hit, one of the sentences "death may be an issue" or some such thing. Been a few yrs since I have been up there.

While avalanches are a part of the world I am in, including being an instructor for 30 yrs, training director for ski school I work for, most of us are probably not as knowledgeable as we should. Two roads over and thru the cascades were recently closed for the winter. Not worth keeping open, as there are too many avalanche chutes to control, cost too much etc.

Marty

blt2ski · #6 (**permalink**) 12-18-2008

Not sure about all mtns around me being above treeline! Treeline is generally speaking about 7-8000' in the cascades. There is NOT one ski area I can get to but Timberline, and Mt Hood Meadows that are about treeline. Steepness is probably more the issue than anything.

Alpental about 10 yrs ago had a helacious avalanche start at the top of Mt Snoqualmie behind it on the east side of Denney Mtn. The SP was shooting howitzers into a know chute, could not get it to move, 12 hrs later it started 1000' up near the top, and took out 1000's of trees upwards of 2' thick down some 4000' of mtn side!

Not sure about who's snow is wetter. Colder back east yes, but snow at 28-32F like if falls around here usually, right off the pacific ocean is pretty dang wet! The problem back east, is the extreme cold then not much snow, so it does pack, it does not get refreshened as I understand it. I could be wrong too.

Steepness is probably more of the issue as at least for me, the cascades and Rockies when there, are newer mtn ranges and much steeper than the eastern mtns that have had time to erode down some

Marty

farmboy · #7 (**permalink**) 12-18-2008

Marty,

I certainly have always had a lot of respect for the power of avalanches. I've just never worried about them in bounds. When you are skiing in bounds, do you where a beacon? In the Snowbird fatality, the woman was found alive after a 1 hour search and died later in hospital. A beacon may have sped her rescue. I'm not suggesting any negligence on her part. She was doing what many responsible powder hounds do in waiting to ski the slope until after the avalanche control was finished.

blt2ski · #8 (**permalink**) 12-18-2008

I've never found the need, nor felt it was needed to wear a beacon inbounds at any of the area's I ski at. Now there are some area's at Alpental, Crystal mtn that have out of bound skiing, with notices that you are entering uncontrolled area's, if lost, need rescue you may/are liable for rescue.

Avalanches are natural occuring events, multiple things can set them off. The dynamite used may have loosend the area but not enought to slide, and the people on it caused the slide. Maybe the area needed just a bit more snow, or a differnt temp snow. WAY too many factors involved to say why that slide occured etc. Even the thing that hit me was in a known chute, looked up, saw nothing and away I went, onl to be hit a few seconds later. One of my sons was standing and the snow went right in front of him!

Certainly one should have respect for what avalanches can do. Maybe I am not a worry wort over things like this, and I should be!?!?!?! Or it could be that I will not go places that really do worry me if there has been a lot of snow recently.

Marty

Faster · #9 (**permalink**) 12-18-2008

And its not just avalanches to worry about.. some years ago my brother took a fall into a treehole - massive trauma to his head and shoulders, medivac, 1 week in a coma, surgery, a nasty couple of months or more.. Fortunately he survived and has come out of it OK, and a side note - he was skiing with his then 6 and 8 year old daughters - not exactly a double diamond run!!

WEAR A HELMET!!

farmboy · #10 (**permalink**) 12-18-2008

Faster,

I'm glad your brother is alright. I have recently started wearing a helmet. I really got into tree skiing at Jay Peak, Vermont, and it seemed like a good idea. I also find the helmet to be extremely warm and comfortable. There really is no downside. Helmets are a good example of the evolution of safety in downhill skiing. Perhaps the use of in bounds beacons will be another one of those things that becomes more common.