Do You Use The Sailnet Store?

[Coldwater]

Wow! I have always enjoyed these forums, but I just had the worst experience with the sailnet store. It was my first order with them, and it ended up that they did not have, or apparently even stock, the item shown on the website. I can understand that, things happen, products change, websites are hard to keep current - no problem.

The problems were that my order kept showing a "set to ship" status every day, but never shipped. After a week, I started to try to find out what was going on. I never could get anything through the chat system, even though they were getting my messages nothing was coming back. Calls and messages went unreturned, and I started to get ticked off. I just wanted to know if the order had shipped or not.

Finally, I got word through email that they didn't have the product, and would I take a more expensive substitute. My answer was no, but it took another 2 days to get any confirmation that the order had been canceled.

Then I got a note that they had done a credit to my card. While I am glad they gave my money back, they should NEVER have charged my card for a product that never existed. Now, if that credit doesn't go right through, I will be out that money for a month or more. This is either a very bad sales system, or incompetence, or both.

I have worked in retail and mail order a number of times, so I know the problems that can arise. But my advice, just from this one experience mind you, would be to never do business with this store. I sure won't!

But, I will still enjoy the forums, and take my business elsewhere.

[sailingdog]

Unfortunately, the e-commerce side of the Sailnet site leaves a lot to be desired. IMHO, it is one of the least usable on-line stores, and I often end up abandoning carts on it due to the usability issues it has.

I would recommend, if you really want to support Sailnet, that you call them on the phone instead of using the site. They're quite good at phone sales and have pretty good customer service if you avoid using or involving the ecommerce system they're using.

[Cruisingdad]

Obviously you are ticked off... but things happen. I have not had any problems with the new Sailnet. I had issues before the change of management many years ago.

If you or anyone ever has this kind of a problem, reach out to me and I will help. I do NOT (NOT) work for Sailnet but can get in touch with them pretty quickly. I will have you talk to the CEO if you want (Rob Proctor).

I am glad you enjoy the forums. Myself and the other mods work hard to make them a good place. We have great participation from all over the world from a lot of great people. But this forum costs money to maintain and is made possible by the store. I guess my concern is that when you put that kind of a message out in public and say that you love the forum (that you get for free) but shoot down the store (that pays for your's and all of ours ability to have this fourm), it actually severly hurts both.

Again, I am really nothing more than a member just like you. I get nothing (NOTTA) from Sailnet. This is just my perspective that I wish you would have handled this in a different way because it does a lot of damage to the fourms.

I have contacted the CEO of Sailnet. He will reach out to you and take care of the matter and everything will be handled.

Brian

[Coldwater]

Originally Posted by Cruisingdad

Obviously you are ticked off... but things happen. I have not had any problems with the new Sailnet. I had issues before the change of management many years ago.

If you or anyone ever has this kind of a problem, reach out to me and I will help. I do NOT (NOT) work for Sailnet but can get in touch with them pretty quickly. I will have you talk to the CEO if you want (Rob Proctor).

I am glad you enjoy the forums. Myself and the other mods work hard to make them a good place. We have great participation from all over the world from a lot of great people. But this forum costs money to maintain and is made possible by the store. I guess my concern is that when you put that kind of a message out in public and say that you love the forum (that you get for free) but shoot down the store (that pays for your's and all of ours ability to have this fourm), it actually severly hurts both.

Again, I am really nothing more than a member just like you. I get nothing (NOTTA) from Sailnet. This is just my perspective that I wish you would have handled this in a different way because it does a lot of damage to the fourms.

I have contacted the CEO of Sailnet. He will reach out to you and take care of the matter and everything will be handled.

Brian

Good points. I'm not so much ticked off at this point as surprised. Like I said, I have worked in both retail and mail order, before Al invented the internet, so I know that sometimes something goes wrong and it just keeps snowballing. It seems sometimes like one customer gets all the bad breaks and everyone else does fine.

It may very well be that they were trying to make it right, because when I would sit there for ten or twenty minutes with the chat window open and nothing happening, I would end up with an email out there saying they thought I had clicked off - just bad technology I guess.

I made the point that I was forming my opinion from only one experience for the very reason that I wanted people to know that this might be a fluke. I will take the advice above, and next time I will only buy over the phone. If that works, fine. I still say they should not have run the card for a product they didn't have, you just don't do that. But whatever. I never felt that anything shady was going on, just very annoying.

[JungleJim]

I'm also loving the forums. There is great content and knowledgeable folks - CD and SD to name a few. I'm starting to shop for a long term refit ($20K-30K in improvements planned) and see the Sailnet pricing as reasonable. So, my question is, try the on-line system or go with phone. Does Sailnet (Rob) have a position and plan to improve the on-line capability? I want to support sailnet in any event but would prefer the ability to shop on-line. Bottom line, it is the quality of the forums that drives me to shop Sailnet.

[sailingdog]

Jim—

Thanks for the compliment. I would highly recommend you call them, rather than try using the on-line store, especially for such a big project. You can probably get a slight discount on such a large purchase as well.

What kind of boat are you re-fitting and what kind of work are you planning on doing to it??

[JungleJim]

Dog,

Thanks for the quick response - phone it is.

We bought a 1996 Mandarin 52' Motorsailer in New Zealand and take delivery on Aug 15 (in Hawaii) to begin our cruising life in SoCal. A Mandarin is a newer version of the Mariner 50' - basically a Trawler with sails (and sails well). We head east (back home for me) in 2010 and on to the Med in 2011. Since you asked about refit, I'm planning do most on my own and I'm looking at;

- complete refinish of cabin - stem to stern, sole, ceilings, lockers, etc.
- (2) new Heads and sanitary hoses
- (2) Shower sumps
- (2) new sinks in head and general facelift for the admiral
- Recommission of holding tank - add macerator
- add watermaker
- add icemaker
- Rocna 40 as primary anchor and rode (have Bruce and Fortress)
- (2) safety harnesses, with integrated PFD, strobe
- Upgrade battery bank to 800 AH minimum
- (2) Upgrade of manual to electric winches
- 3000W 120/60Hz inverter/charger to complement 220V/50Hz system
- (2) HDTV units mounted, add antenna
- Add cruising chute and sheets
- Tricolor mast light
- Some deck and topside gelcoat repair
- automatic beer dispenser 24/7 (she's a great girl, my wife)

Good news the boat and key systems are in solid shape. Obviously I could quickly exceed $40-50K here if I get outside help, but I'm planning to take it slow and do it right myself. My references are Don Casey, Nigel Caldwell and Sailnet (you and others)

[sailingdog]

Originally Posted by JungleJim

Dog,

Thanks for the quick response - phone it is.

We bought a 1996 Mandarin 52' Motorsailer in New Zealand and take delivery on Aug 15 (in Hawaii) to begin our cruising life in SoCal. A Mandarin is a newer version of the Mariner 50' - basically a Trawler with sails (and sails well). We head east (back home for me) in 2010 and on to the Med in 2011. Since you asked about refit, I'm planning do most on my own and I'm looking at;

- complete refinish of cabin - stem to stern, sole, ceilings, lockers, etc.

I see a painful amount of sanding and other wood work related agony in your future...

- (2) new Heads and sanitary hoses

If the heads are manual with four-bolt bowls, you might be able to replace them with a part from Raritan that would effectively upgrade the head to either a PHC or PHII. It is basically a kit that includes the base and pump, and it "recycles" the bowl, saving you a considerable chunk of change on the price. SBO has the kits as a stock item and Sailnet can probably order them.

Use Trident 101/102 for the big hoses and Trident 148 for the smaller hoses. Keep the vent line as short and straight as possible and don't use a screen on the through-hull fitting for it.

IMHO, the best way to plumb a head is to have the heads discharge directly into the holding tank, and then have the holding tank pumpout line have a diverter valve. One side should go to the deck fitting, and the other side should go to either a macerator pump or a manual diaphragm pump, the seacock and through hull. This allows you to "pump out" the tank when you're out past the three-mile limit. BTW, I prefer manual diaphragm pumps, since they're more reliable and don't require electricity.

- (2) Shower sumps

Make sure these discharge overboard, rather than into the bilge...which is a recipe for a stinky boat.

- (2) new sinks in head and general facelift for the admiral

If she ain't happy, you won't be either...

- Recommission of holding tank - add macerator

See above.

- add watermaker

Don't forget to add a tank for the watermaker output that is separate from the other water tanks, and to have some way to transfer the water between tanks. Never put municipally treated water into the RO watermaker tank if you use the tank water to backflush the membrane, as chlorine will destroy most RO membranes.

- add icemaker

Now we know who to hit up at cocktail hour...

- Rocna 40 as primary anchor and rode (have Bruce and Fortress)

Good choice... I have a Rocna 15 as my primary. Don't use a swivel.

- (2) safety harnesses, with integrated PFD, strobe

I would recommend the Spinlock Deckware Pro or Deckvest. They're SOLAS approved and have a strobe, whistle, harness, and splash hood. Be aware, they are not USCG approved.

- Upgrade battery bank to 800 AH minimum

Don't forget to have some sort of passive charging, whether it is wind or solar.

- (2) Upgrade of manual to electric winches

I'm not a big fan of electric winches. IMHO, it is better to go to a slightly large manual winch instead of going electric.

- 3000W 120/60Hz inverter/charger to complement 220V/50Hz system

You're gonna need a bigger battery bank.

- (2) HDTV units mounted, add antenna

Don't forget to have a disconnect point for the antenna, so that in the case of thunderstorms, you can disconnect it from the TVs.

- Add cruising chute and sheets

Go with an ASYM...

- Tricolor mast light

Go with an LED combo Tricolor/Anchor light. I personally have and like the OGM ones, but they're pricey.

- Some deck and topside gelcoat repair

Marinetex is your friend.

- automatic beer dispenser 24/7 (she's a great girl, my wife)

Good news the boat and key systems are in solid shape. Obviously I could quickly exceed $40-50K here if I get outside help, but I'm planning to take it slow and do it right myself. My references are Don Casey, Nigel Caldwell and Sailnet (you and others)

Have fun... If you're ever up this neck of the woods, let me know.

[marinedtcomRob]

Coldwater is right, we could have done better on this order. Most of the problem here was our fault. That he may have had an old or non-standard setup on his computer that kept disconnecting our chats is of course beyond our control. We emailed him promptly, and received no response to the email we requested he reply to. This was an order for a small quantity of line. We were out of stock and suggested a better higher tech alternative. We should have suggested a cheaper alternative too undoubtedly. I do not have notes on whether we tried to call him but if we did not we should have. With that said, what I find truly regrettable is that out of 1000s of orders we process each month, and after spending many thousands of dollars each month to maintain this little community playground for you all, there's perhaps once a month someone, usually with a less than $200 order that reams us out here and feels totally OK about using our FREE community with zero regard for us. Perhaps those other retailers out there are right to not give their users communities to use against them. That way they control the information flow. Again, we could have done much better with this order. Like most marine related companies we have been forced to cut back on support staff. This is the new reality of the economic environment we live in. We are however profitable and still growing unlike many of our competitors. Even with the cut backs the vast majority of our customers are very happy with the service we provide. This was one order out of thousands and I do apologize that we did not meet this customers expectations.

As for the functionality of the shopping system (addressed later in this thread) it is being completely revised in the next few weeks and I think you'll like the changes you'll see there.

Rob Proctor
CEO SailNet.com

Originally Posted by Coldwater

Wow! I have always enjoyed these forums, but I just had the worst experience with the sailnet store. It was my first order with them, and it ended up that they did not have, or apparently even stock, the item shown on the website. I can understand that, things happen, products change, websites are hard to keep current - no problem.

The problems were that my order kept showing a "set to ship" status every day, but never shipped. After a week, I started to try to find out what was going on. I never could get anything through the chat system, even though they were getting my messages nothing was coming back. Calls and messages went unreturned, and I started to get ticked off. I just wanted to know if the order had shipped or not.

Finally, I got word through email that they didn't have the product, and would I take a more expensive substitute. My answer was no, but it took another 2 days to get any confirmation that the order had been canceled.

Then I got a note that they had done a credit to my card. While I am glad they gave my money back, they should NEVER have charged my card for a product that never existed. Now, if that credit doesn't go right through, I will be out that money for a month or more. This is either a very bad sales system, or incompetence, or both.

I have worked in retail and mail order a number of times, so I know the problems that can arise. But my advice, just from this one experience mind you, would be to never do business with this store. I sure won't!

But, I will still enjoy the forums, and take my business elsewhere.

[JungleJim]

Thanks my friend for the great advice. The current set up has shower and sinks draining into the bilge - jeesh! The PO says he mostly showers on deck, but I'm rectifying that part of step one. I'll definitely look you up as I'm planning to sail up to see my family between Marshfield, Duxbury and Falmouth. BTW, I caught a video of that rocketship you sail - how do you keep the little drink umbrellas from impaling guests?