opinion's and b++holes

[sawingknots]

opinion's are like +utholes in more ways than one,everyone's got at least one and their mostly unchangeable,i hate politics and i hate arguing even more i've yet to see it changing anyones opinion about anything be they right or be they wrong,i always end up feeling bad that maybe i've offended someone,if that is the case i'm deeply sorry,for that reason i'm seriously considering with drawing my membership.

[CapTim]

This is why I always select "New Posts - No Politics"

That other stuff makes my head hurt. And one time, my eyes got to spinning so badly that I couldn't see straight for a week...

[imagine2frolic]

You are going to leave, because you are human? Just do as CapTim suggest, and hang around.......i2f

[bubb2]

Originally Posted by sawingknots

opinion's are like +utholes in more ways than one,everyone's got at least one and their mostly unchangeable,i hate politics and i hate arguing even more i've yet to see it changing anyones opinion about anything be they right or be they wrong,i always end up feeling bad that maybe i've offended someone,if that is the case i'm deeply sorry,for that reason i'm seriously considering with drawing my membership.

I looked at your recent posts. 15 out of the last 25 of your posts have been in political thread. For a guy that says he hates politics, you spend a lot of time there, just saying!

[T37Chef]

Originally Posted by bubb2

I looked at your recent posts. 15 out of the last 25 of your posts have been in political thread. For a guy that says he hates politics, you spend a lot of time there, just saying!

Seriously? You took the time to look that up? OMG

[danjarch]

It took me a bit to get the hang of talking politics in an online forum. I'll give you some of the ground rules I learned.

1. Figure out if your talking to a normal person or a troll.

You might think that's easy but it can be harder then it looks. You've got to catch the little things like constant hair splitting. If someone is trying to discredit everything his opponent says by focusing on the exceptions rather then the averages then they're likely to turn into a troll.

2. Know when you hold a radical opinion.

It doesn't mean your wrong but isn't going to play out well in the thread. There are a number of areas where I don't agree with either of the major party lines, I tend to avoid commenting in threads where those things come up. You have to be your own judge on this one. Your not going to be easily able to get your point across in the few paragraphs that people are going to read. So if you have a nuanced view that is reasonably far from the main stream then your better off viewing the thread rather then commenting in it.

3. Are you willing to change your opinion.

This is a tricky one. There are some issues that are tied up in your over all beliefs that are hard to change one by one. It's worth spending some time pondering how your beliefs are interrelated before thinking someone else is being unreasonable. I've seen people of every political side fail to see the difference between their facts and beliefs. It's a little unreasonable to expect other to change their mind when you wouldn't consider changing yours either. And this is a point by point issue, not an over all thing. A good example would be that you may or may not feel the federal government should be as involved in medical as it's getting but aren't likely to question whether that extends to the CDC or FDA. Which would mean that you do believe the government has a right to control medicine on some level. If you don't take that into account then you could find yourself really at odds with someone who really doesn't believe the government should be involved with medicine. Or conversely find yourself at odds with someone believes that the government is already involved so why oppose further intervention. Our you willing to go to the heart of your belief on that one. If not why then expect someone else too.

4. It's rare to change your mind overnight, even rarer to admit it to the guy you were arguing with the night before.

Why would you expect to change someone opinion with a couple of paragraphs on an online forum. You either have to really believe your a god amongst men if you think your such a good writer to compel people to change their beliefs so quickly. Either that or you think the people your talking to are complete idiots. This sets you up in a catch 22, if you think the people your debating are such fools then why bother debating them. Don't get me wrong, there are some who come around that I think are fools, idiots, or trolls, but I don't make it a habit to respond to them. Conversely, there are plenty around here that I think quite highly of the have different opinions then me. I wouldn't expect them to change there minds overnight any more then I would change my mind. I've giving a lot of thought before coming to my opinions. Some times I've missed a faucet or two that when fully considered has changed my mind. But it's usually after a time of reflection that I really change my opinion. It goes back to what I said before about no one belief being truly independent of all others. So either you think everybody your debating is an idiot which begs the question of your own intelligence for debating them, or you believe your a god amongst men, at which case you had better avoid the politics section since we're a bit synical down this neck of the woods.

5. It's pretty easy to insult people in these topics.

I just insulted you. I didn't set out to insult you but it's hard to really make your point sometimes with out insulting people. So if you have a thin skin then you should avoid the politics section. It's more a matter of understanding that I'm not insulting you but the idea your pushing. If you can't separate yourself from your ideas then your going to a lot of trouble here. You will be offended at some point either way, which leads to-

6. Take a break now and then

If your getting riled up just thinking about your response to another poster, then you need to take a break. Do you know the difference between a believer and a fanatic? A believer can't change his mind, a fanatic won't change the subject. No matter how well sailnet does separating politics from everything else, you have to be willing to step back yourself. Complaining that just because there is a political section on sailnet means you can't be blamed for being a troll yourself would be like claiming that MSNBC or FOX has to buy you a new TV when you got mad and broke yours.

7. Why are you even commenting in the political section.

For me it's simple. I'm a political junkie and if nothing else posting here allows my to fully examine my beliefs. So why are you posting? I don't have any belief that I'm going to change every ones opinion. I have changed an opinion here or there but even then I would take complete credit for it. I've seen plenty of changes in opinion in the years I've been posting. I'm sure if you went back to some of my first posts then you would find plenty of areas where I've either move to the left or right of what I once posted, but I would be hard pressed to attribute this to one individual. But the reasons I keep coming back are plenty easy for me to understand. They even include the entertainment value I get debating you guys. If you can't come up with a reason to be here other then to change people's opinion then you need to find another outlet. Maybe go campaign for your guy of choice or something. An online forum really isn't the best place to convert people.

[CapTim]

I predict this thread winds up in the political section... love that irony

[bubb2]

Originally Posted by T37Chef

Seriously? You took the time to look that up? OMG

yes, I did. I only counted them, I didn't read them. Took me all of thirty seconds. Sounds to me like the op got his wing clipped in the political thread and wants every one to know that he may leave because of what happen in one thread. OH!, the drama. Let me put this way, There are 47 different threads on Sailnet many with more than than one sub thread. 60% of the OP posts are in the political thread. It reminds me of Shakespeare.

"Me thinks thou does protest thy innocence a bit to loudly". and the other line, "live by the sword," you know the rest!!!

[St Anna]

Originally Posted by bubb2

It reminds me Shakespeare.

"Me thinks thou does protest thy innocence a bit to loudly". and the other line, "live by the sward," you know the rest!!!

Hi Bubb,
Carefull, you may be hoisted by your own petard or whatever way it went

[PBzeer]

The main thing, in my mind, wrong with the political threads is the lack of civility shown by many who post there. There seems to be a tendency by many to "shoot first and ask questions later". You can disagree without calling the other person a $*)#()&&% or saying they believe something their words don't say.

For myself, all I hope to do is make people think about the subject. If they find merit in my view, great. If they don't, they don't and nothing's changed from what it was before I typed. I certainly isn't necessary to call them names or say they're stupid/bigoted/intolerant/etc., just because they disagree with me.