Finally!!! UN is going to attack Kadafi and protect Libyan Population

[PCP]

Today a resolution passed on the UN to protect Libyan population from Kadafi.

The action was formally required by the Arabian league and it will be exclusively an Air strike operation.

[r.furborough]

I take it you meant Libyan not Lebanese population!

[RAGNAR]

I look forward to the day when life and death issues are resolved through reasoning, not vote counting.

I hope this intervention in the [non-]sovereignty of Libya is a good thing.

I also hope that, for once, the free world isn't stalled by the tactics that keep tyrants in power (cease fire, compromise, negotiations, treaties, granting tyrannies rights that belong solely to free nations, etc.)

[RAGNAR]

And you gotta love that massive statist regimes (i) have a say, (ii) either abstained or voted against the action.

The whole UN thing is ludicrous.

[PCP]

Originally Posted by r.furborough

I take it you meant Libyan not Lebanese population!

Thanks. I have edited the post.

[PCP]

Originally Posted by RAGNAR

And you gotta love that massive statist regimes (i) have a say, (ii) either abstained or voted against the action.

The whole UN thing is ludicrous.

If they had voted against the action would be vetoed.

I don't agree with you regarding UN. Its is fundamental that the action was required by the Arabian league. The UN is the only way to protect small countries against the arbitrary wills of powerful countries.

Not saying that it works well, lots of things to improve, but that is the right direction.

.... Today, individual nations can discuss what comes next in the knowledge that the world, for once, has done the right thing. This has, in the end, been a textbook operation, with the Arab League in the forefront, Russia and China settling for abstention and the dithering of President Obama looking, with hindsight, like a useful stratagem that allowed other players to unite. Critics said the UN was good for nothing. It has proved them wrong.

This is a good day for internationalism, for diplomacy and for conscience. It is also a good day for David Cameron and Nicolas Sarkozy. Both leaders are open to diverse criticism, but on this issue, Mr Cameron has been extraordinarily bold, rising above the mockery of cynics and justifiable anxiety of critics, to engage other leaders and do what is right.

... This is not an attempt to enforce a western template of democracy. It represents instead concerted action by global players who will not stand by as a despot exterminates people to whom he has promised no mercy. There will be many problems. The Libya drama may not end well. But the UN has taken the choice that many thought it would never make. Such unity offers not only some respite to the people of Libya. It offers hope to us all.

Libya attack: The UN, and David Cameron, got it right – Telegraph Blogs

Regards

Paulo

[PCP]

From the wall Street Journal, a good article on the subject:

The U.N. action, pushed aggressively by France and the U.K., came as Col. Gadhafi's security forces continued their assault toward Benghazi, the de-facto capital of rebels trying to end his 42-year rule.
.....
Ten members of the Security Council voted for the imposition of a no-fly zone in Libya and other security measures, with no members opposing the resolution. Russia, China, Germany, India and Brazil abstained.
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The U.N. vote passed narrowly, as nine votes are required with no vetoes by any of the permanent members of the Security Council.
.........
The assertive U.S. posture marked a turnaround from the early days of the month-old Libyan crisis, when President Barack Obama's administration, and particularly his defense advisers, seemed reluctant to embrace military action.
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France has been the most aggressive in seeking to contest Col. Gadhafi and Paris's military forces are expected to play a central, and early role in enforcing the no-fly zone and taking other actions, European and American officials said.

U.N. Clears Way for Attack on Libya - WSJ.com

The 15-member council authorised the resolution in New York as troops loyal to the leader prepare to launch an assault on the rebel-held city of Benghazi.

The US, UK, France, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Gabon, Lebanon, Nigeria, Colombia, South Africa and Portugal voted to approve the resolution, while China, Russia, Brazil, Germany and India abstained.

Video Libya: UN Security Council Votes In Favour Of A No-Fly Zone - Libya Says It Is Not Afraid | Politics | Sky News


Libya's government has announced an immediate ceasefire against pro-democracy protesters, hours after the United Nations Security Council authorised a no-fly zone over the country.

In a statement televised on Friday, Moussa Koussa, the Libyan foreign minister, said his government was interested in protecting all civilians and foreigners.

"We decided on an immediate ceasefire and on an immediate stop to all military operations," he said, adding "[Libya] takes great interest in protecting civilians".

......

"My hunch is that it is an effort to buy time because the Libyans, I think, have been taken completely by surprise by this sudden resurgence of an [international] consensus on action."

The ceasefire declaration also contrasted with earlier comments by Muammar Gaddafi, the country's leader, who warned residents of Benghazi, the eastern rebel stronghold, that his forces would show "no mercy" in an impending assault on the city.

"We will track them [fighters] down, and search for them, alley by alley, road by road," he said in a radio address on Thursday.
.....
Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, the Spanish prime minister, also warned that the international community "will not be fooled" by Gaddafi's government and will verify compliance with the UN resolution.

Earlier the British prime minister said his country was about to start sending fighter jets and surveillance aircraft to military bases in the Mediterranean in preparation for a no-fly zone.

Speaking to parliament he said Tornado and Typhoon jets would be deployed imminently along with surveillance and re-fuelling planes.

"Preparations to deploy these aircraft have already started and in the coming hours they will move to airbases from where they can start to take the necessary action," he said.
....
The intervention, which is expected to be enforced by Britain, France, the US, Norway and Qatar, bans military aircraft from flying in Libyan airspace, but not commercial or humanitarian flights.
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Eurocontrol, Europe's air traffic agency, said earlier the Libyan government had closed its airspace to all traffic in response to the UN resolution. Egypt also confirmed that it had begun to enforce the no-fly zone and that all flights to Libya from Egypt have been halted.

Libya declares ceasefire but fighting goes on - Africa - Al Jazeera English

[WouldaShoulda]

I'm beginning to like the "New France!!"

[RAGNAR]

Originally Posted by PCP

I don't agree with you regarding UN. Its is fundamental that the action was required by the Arabian league.

I don't care what a collection of local tyrannies think, Paulo. I also don't accept that they either call for such action or oppose it for noble reasons. So, as far as I'm concerned, whether or not they sanctioned the action is irrelevant. (Look at the king of Saudi Arabia wishing the US would neutralize Iran in private, something that should've been done long ago, while publicly opposing any such actions by outsiders. This is madness.)

The UN is the only way to protect small countries against the arbitrary wills of powerful countries.

I don't agree that it's the only way to protect smaller nations, I don't agree that it has worked, I don't agree with the premise of granting tyrannies anything like a say in such organizations. The UN has a pathetic and/or corrupt record at almost everything it has undertaken. The fundamental premise of collectivism, whether we're talking on a micro or macro level, is a disaster.

Not saying that it works well, lots of things to improve, but that is the right direction.

I can't agree. The whole notion of taking a vote on such issues sidesteps reason, the only mechanism we have for ascertaining truth. Tyrants, like viruses, thrive and reach lethal potency in such cracks.

Today, individual nations can discuss what comes next in the knowledge that the world, for once, has done the right thing. This has, in the end, been a textbook operation, with the Arab League in the forefront, Russia and China settling for abstention and the dithering of President Obama looking, with hindsight, like a useful stratagem that allowed other players to unite. Critics said the UN was good for nothing. It has proved them wrong.

That they took this action doesn't validate the action; if we go by track record alone, this is either the wrong move and will probably lead to disaster, or it won't be implemented correctly. Meantime, people have been slaughtered wholesale, Qaddafi is probably feeling cocky again, the UN will probably capitulate the moment he starts talking the right talk, and who knows who/what may rise to replace him?

That Russia and China even have a such a say, and that India doesn't, is all one needs to know about the UN . . .

This is a good day for internationalism, for diplomacy and for conscience.

That's a pretty low standard, Paulo. It's also a premature conclusion. Both these criticisms are separate from the fact that, at its root, internationalism is a deeply flawed, fundamentally irrational model, one that blurs the truth through equivocation rather than identifying the proper course of action and taking it.

... This is not an attempt to enforce a western template of democracy.

This is the sort of madness I'm talking about. The intellectuals behind internationalism are so blinded by their unwillingness to access anything as better than anything else - envy - that they end up equivocating everything with everything, neutralizing reason.

It's hard to imagine a bigger perversity. There may also not be a bigger contradiction possible than to come out vehemently for this sort of shutting down of the mind/Man.

It represents instead concerted action by global players who will not stand by as a despot exterminates people to whom he has promised no mercy.

Exterminating people is an atrocity. So is oppressing them either through a king, and aristocracy or a democratic structure, ie, mob rule. Freedom is Man's natural state, Paulo. That his nature requires that he chose freedom over other systems doesn't negate the need.

But the UN has taken the choice that many thought it would never make.

I'm not surprised by the UN's actions. It's premised on the typical equivocations at the core of its founding. If this organization's tack record is anything to go by it won't achieve anything worthwhile (any good that comes of this will be either accidental or will cost too much. Either way, the equivocation of tyrannies and free nations, and the substitution of vote for reason will be further reinforced.)

Such unity offers not only some respite to the people of Libya. It offers hope to us all

Hope of what, exactly?

Going in enjoys no more validity or moral authority when it's done by the UN than it would had Sweden done so on her own.

[PCP]

Originally Posted by WouldaShoulda

I'm beginning to like the "New France!!"

"British ambassador to the UN, Sir Mark Lyall Grant, said the UK and its partners were "ready to shoulder our responsibility" in enforcing the measures.
Government sources have played down the prospect - raised by France in the run-up to the vote - that the intervention could begin within hours.
It is believed there are outstanding issues to be resolved and the Ministry of Defence said its contingency planning was not finished. Prime Minister David Cameron will hold a Cabinet meeting this morning and will then make a House of Commons statement on the developments."

Video Libya: UN Security Council Votes In Favour Of A No-Fly Zone - Libya Says It Is Not Afraid | Politics | Sky News