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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2011
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Originally Posted by TSchwarck View Post
Personally, I blame "free trade" for much of our economic problems. So many jobs have been lost since NAFTA and GATT were enacted. China does not practise free trade, neither does much of the rest of the world. A good example is S. Korea. Remember how Obama went there to ask for more trade and was sent away empty handed even though we import huge numbers of cars from there. Now they have had a disease outbreak which has destroyed their animal(meat) agriculture. Suddenly they are the biggest importer of US beef in the world. I guess "free" trade works when you are hungry.
Back in the 80's and early 90's the economy was doing great. That was before "free trade". I don't think taxes are much different today than then. The main difference is the trade situation. We have had a trade defecit for many years but it used to be mainly for oil imports. Now it is for almost everything. I can't remember the last time I could even find an American made product in the store.
I am all for reduced govt/taxes/spending, but until something is done about the trade situation we won't see many new jobs here.

Hemp - Look it up!
Thanks Rags!
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2011
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Originally Posted by bwalker42 View Post
Hemp - Look it up!
Thanks Rags!
I wish I could take the credit, bwalker42, but all I was doing was "rerouting" Tropi's tone, in Tropi's words -- look it up!
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Old 07-17-2011
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I don't usually read the 'off topic' forums and as an outsider I don't want to tell you guys how to run your country. I'll admit I don't understand American society very well. Therefore, don't flame me - I'm not suggesting I have any answers whatsoever. I simply want to offer an outsider observation:

It would seem that the American political system is completely dysfunctional. Not only are billions of dollars seemingly spent on campaigning, but the campaigning starts almost immediately after elections, causing incumbents not to be able to really focus on getting the job done. Further, there seems to be very little appetite for compromise in the general public good. Often personally financially secure (if not filthy rich) politicians pontificate and argue, slinging personal invectives and take completely intransigent stances, making any compromise very difficult, if not impossible. This in spite of the fact that you don't need to be a NASA engineer to know that compromise is the only way to get the job done.

One simply has to ask - are the politicians REALLY at all interested in the public good? Or has America become a country where the upper class, comfortably financially secure, continues with their orgy of infighting, while the lower classes 'the people', increasingly sink into a terminal spiral ending in abject poverty. It would seem that the arrogance of many (most?) politicians is threatening to pull one of the greatest nations the world has ever known, into the abyss. If this were to continue - where are you (and by extension - the rest of the world) heading? The possibilities make one shudder.

Come on America - you should be the example to the world. You once were. No more. The world needs you to wake UP!

M Murphy
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Old 07-17-2011
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So, which part of getting rid of the loopholes, credits, deductions and subsidies don't you get? That's tax reform.
So, which part of as long as the wealthy own the levers of Federal governance and regulation. you'll never get tax reform, don't you understand?
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2011
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Originally Posted by TSchwarck View Post
Personally, I blame "free trade" for much of our economic problems. So many jobs have been lost since NAFTA and GATT were enacted. China does not practise free trade, neither does much of the rest of the world.......
I think you've hit the nail on the head. Free trade did create some jobs but those paled by the the comparison of the implosion of employment in almost every American industry. There just isn't any doubt about it. This recession is deeper and longer than anyone realized going in and even though it's officially ended, it really hasn't and ultimately, when you look deep enough, Free Trade is behind it.

Take a look at key industries.

The auto industry is on pace to sell 28 percent fewer new vehicles this year than it did 10 years ago — and 10 years ago was 2001, when the country was in that recession.

Big ticket items like sales of ovens and stoves are on pace to be at their lowest level since 1992.

Do we even have to talk about Home Sales?....worse than the Great Depression... not even close..

If this is Free Trade, we can't afford any more of it. It's bankrupted the country.

The Fed is trying to tell us something, is anyone listening???

The Federal Reserve Bank of New York recently published a report that can only be called 'jarring' on what it calls discretionary service spending, a category that excludes housing, food and health care. It includes restaurant meals, entertainment, education and even insurance. Going back decades, this spending had never fallen more than 3 percent per capita in any recession. However in our "recovery", it is down almost 7 percent, and still has not really begun to recover.

How about the NY Fed paper by Jonathan McCarthy "Discretionary Services Expenditures in This Business Cycle"

I quote:

"....The pronounced weakness in personal consumption expenditures (PCE) for services has been an unusual feature of the 2007-09 recession and the slow recovery from it. Even in 2010:Q4, when real PCE increased at a relatively robust 4.1 percent annual rate, real PCE on services rose at only a 1.4 percent rate. This weakness has been especially evident in “discretionary” services (to be defined below), which fell more in the recent recession than in previous recessions and since have rebounded more sluggishly. In this post, I suggest that the continued sluggishness in these expenditures lends a note of caution regarding the sustainability of recent PCE strength. ... this in turn raises some concern about the future strength of the recovery."

These reports are important because this has never happened before. The Fed's own analysts are actually calling our "recovery" bull crap and I suggest to all readers that this is no recovery at all. I also suggest that the American public is being mislead as to the depth and breath of this recession, and that our leaders aren't interested in addressing the underlying issues as the corporations who own them caused these issues in the first place.

As to a real recovery? What recovery??

Our economic issue in the "Great Recession" is lack of demand. This lack of demand sounds so simple when the experts say it. But do they mentioned what's causing Lack of Demand? Over 22% of the American workforce is unemployed or underemployed. If that's not bad enough, the really scary part is that there's still too much excess capacity in most areas of the economy for a large contribution from new investment (except in equipment and software). We see this excess in housing, and excess capacity in overall industrial production.

There is also excess existing supply in office space, retail space, and other categories of commercial real estate. Just where exactly can any kind of a recovery begin to take shape. Our economy has been fractured. About the only plan that makes sense is the repair the infrastructure idea that Obama floated. Immediately shot down by Republicans. The only segment of the economy that showed recovery is the stock market. Main Street USA got thrown under the bus.

Where's the Plan....anyone in Washington got a plan???

Without any kind of a plan, just how are we supposed to get back to real GDP growth? Neither Congress nor the Administration is doing a thing about the economy. Without a plan in place to jump start a real "recovery", there is no end in sight to the Great Recession. The Future will bring us more of the same.

The data is out there if you dig deep enough. I feel very strongly that my conclusions are inescapable.
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Old 07-17-2011
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Without a plan in place to jump start a real "recovery", there is no end in sight to the Great Recession.
Simple, as are all expressions of hard-earned truths: Get government out of the way and let the nation start an actual, concrete recovery, not one that relies on FedRes hocus pocus.
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Old 07-17-2011
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Simple, as are all expressions of hard-earned truths: Get government out of the way and let the nation start an actual, concrete recovery, not one that relies on FedRes hocus pocus.
Rags, for my own info, if the world worked as you would like, what would have happened Re: cause, effect & resolution of a situation like Enron or the S&L situation in the 80's?
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2011
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Originally Posted by TropicCat View Post
...
Without any kind of a plan, just how are we supposed to get back to real GDP growth? Neither Congress nor the Administration is doing a thing about the economy. Without a plan in place to jump start a real "recovery", there is no end in sight to the Great Recession. The Future will bring us more of the same.

The data is out there if you dig deep enough. I feel very strongly that my conclusions are inescapable.
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Originally Posted by magnusmurphy View Post
...
One simply has to ask - are the politicians REALLY at all interested in the public good? ....

It would seem that the arrogance of many (most?) politicians is threatening to pull one of the greatest nations the world has ever known, into the abyss. If this were to continue - where are you (and by extension - the rest of the world) heading? The possibilities make one shudder.

Come on America - you should be the example to the world. You once were. No more. The world needs you to wake UP!
How long are going those politicians wait for that GDP growth? Politicians interested in the public good? Come on they are interested in power and power means the Party...at least to the majority.

They are going to wait (and hope) for that recovery and continue borrowing money abroad to have the country working as it is now till the ones that lent the money start to be cautious about it and start to increase interest rates.

I agree with Murphy: "Come on America...the world needs you to wake up"!

Regards

Paulo
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Old 07-17-2011
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Originally Posted by RAGNAR View Post
Simple, as are all expressions of hard-earned truths: Get government out of the way and let the nation start an actual, concrete recovery, not one that relies on FedRes hocus pocus.
One picture is still worth 1000 words... thanks to Politico.com

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Old 07-18-2011
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I agree with Murphy: "Come on America...the world needs you to wake up"!

Regards

Paulo
Funny, how Europeans point out falacies in the US system, but neglect to see the pile of s$%# in front of their own doorstep. Which model would you like us to follow: Greece, Portugal, Spain, Italy..??? Obviously all well working governments....
I think the whole world needs to wake up.
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