Jobs issue or skilled worker problem?

[SloopJonB]

It's ALL OF THE ABOVE. When I started working in the corporate world, lo these many years ago, companies took care of their staff - the best benefits they could afford, extensive OTJ training and development, outside courses paid for, pensions, generous severance packages when necessary and so forth.

Then the ideas of the Harvard Business School gained traction (insane levels of competitiveness in all things, short term share price focus, eliminating vertical integration, senseless diversification, calling staff "human resources" and so forth and so on.

This really started ramping up in the late 80's and staff quickly became nothing more than HR units. A lot of feel good talk surrounded all this - "employee engagement", "loyalty" and so forth but staff were really of no more concern than any other office equipment. Is it any wonder that the companies get no loyalty in return? Teamwork has degenerated into every man for himself and screw their co-workers, efficiency or the best interests of the company.

The companies that refer to their staff using such labels as "associates" or "partners" are the worst - that is just code for minimum wage "units".

The education system has ALWAYS been focused on University entrance - the teachers are all grads and education snobs. To them, trades are for those folks who can't cut it in academia. The sweet irony is that most skilled tradesmen make more money for less stress then teachers.

Companies don't train and develop OTJ anything like they used to - it costs money so they want their HR units to come ready to plug in to boost that quarters profit - training is someone else's responsibility.

All of this and more as described in the other posts is what is wrong and it STARTS with the employers - if they show loyalty and concern for their staff, they will get it in return - for the most part - deadbeats will always be with us.

I know that my last employer was a poster child for this sort of mentality and I saw what it did first hand - loyal, hardworking people that I had worked with for decades at another, good, although declining in the same way, employer became disillusioned and cynical at being used, deceived and outright lied to and they ended up doing the minimum they could and milking the system for everything they could. I had to manage them but I finally got fed up with what was expected of me and arranged an early exit for myself.

It's all become a big race to the bottom and I don't know where it's going to end - I'm just glad I'm no longer part of it.

Obviously there are lots of exceptions to this but I'll bet they are virtually all smaller companies.

[merc2dogs]

quote Sloopjonb:

Another issue with finding skilled workers is that many companies today have instituted policies of NOT hiring unemployed people. Which makes it difficult to hire people at all, if they are working, odds are they are happy with their jobs and likely making more than the new companies are willing to pay new hires.
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My last job with a big company had a serious shake up at the top when most of the higher ups retired. It went from having people in charge who had started at the bottom that knew what was involved to college grads etc who had no real life experience in the work.
One of the first steps was to start hiring younger workers and lay off/fire most of the old guys who'd been doing it enough to know what was what.
Was very frustrating trying to explain to them that a crew of experienced workers could spend a couple extra hours on the job to finish it AND save money by not having call backs than they saved by having unskilled/uncaring workers who had so many cal backs it was crazy. So, you save $5-$8 per man hour, where is the savings if you have to pay them for twice as many hours, twice the mileage and twice the per Diem/hotel ???
As one of the original foremen who was kept it was my job to teach them and make sure everything was done right, was a fricken night mare I figured out the only skill they were looking for in new hires was breathing ability.

[LandLocked66c]

Every job i've ever had has had OTJ training. The jobs are there if you are willing to start @ 13/hr and pay your dues. The problem is most folks don't want to...

[SloopJonB]

Originally Posted by merc2dogs

quote Sloopjonb:

Another issue with finding skilled workers is that many companies today have instituted policies of NOT hiring unemployed people. Which makes it difficult to hire people at all, if they are working, odds are they are happy with their jobs and likely making more than the new companies are willing to pay new hires.
--------------------------------------
My last job with a big company had a serious shake up at the top when most of the higher ups retired. It went from having people in charge who had started at the bottom that knew what was involved to college grads etc who had no real life experience in the work.
One of the first steps was to start hiring younger workers and lay off/fire most of the old guys who'd been doing it enough to know what was what.
Was very frustrating trying to explain to them that a crew of experienced workers could spend a couple extra hours on the job to finish it AND save money by not having call backs than they saved by having unskilled/uncaring workers who had so many cal backs it was crazy. So, you save $5-$8 per man hour, where is the savings if you have to pay them for twice as many hours, twice the mileage and twice the per Diem/hotel ???
As one of the original foremen who was kept it was my job to teach them and make sure everything was done right, was a fricken night mare I figured out the only skill they were looking for in new hires was breathing ability.

Just by the by, that was NOT a quote from me but I entirely agree.

[SloopJonB]

Originally Posted by LandLocked66c

Every job i've ever had has had OTJ training. The jobs are there if you are willing to start @ 13/hr and pay your dues. The problem is most folks don't want to...

There is still SOME but it is generally inadequate even for the specific job at hand and virtually nothing by way of further staff development.

[hellosailor]

Yeah, your average Chinese industrial worker has had ten years of advanced schooling before he/she is allowed to work on an assembly line. Sure.

Sorry, doesn't wash with me. I've seen too many people claim they can't get employees...while they offer to pay about half of what room and board in their area would cost. Unless you want to live eight to a room, Workers' Paradise Dormitory style.

Of course this is compounded by the contrast between the offshore work ethic (do the job or starve) and the new US work ethic "Wo, Dude! Is it Monday already?!" where folks take jobs and then simply don't show up at all, don't even call to say they've changed their mind and won't be taking the job. Or they natter away on or off the cell phone, ignoring the customers standing in line.

Seen plenty of that too. Plenty of blame to go around.

[SloopJonB]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Yeah, your average Chinese industrial worker has had ten years of advanced schooling before he/she is allowed to work on an assembly line. Sure.

Sorry, doesn't wash with me. I've seen too many people claim they can't get employees...while they offer to pay about half of what room and board in their area would cost. Unless you want to live eight to a room, Workers' Paradise Dormitory style.

Of course this is compounded by the contrast between the offshore work ethic (do the job or starve) and the new US work ethic "Wo, Dude! Is it Monday already?!" where folks take jobs and then simply don't show up at all, don't even call to say they've changed their mind and won't be taking the job. Or they natter away on or off the cell phone, ignoring the customers standing in line.

Seen plenty of that too. Plenty of blame to go around.

We weren't talking about advanced schooling, quite the contrary, we were talking about OTJ training. The rest of your post is spot on but, as I said, it started with the employers turning their staff into HR units, not with uncaring staff.

But, but, but, THEY started it!

[LandLocked66c]

Originally Posted by SloopJonB

There is still SOME but it is generally inadequate even for the specific job at hand and virtually nothing by way of further staff development.

That's true. But i've never expected my employers to do more than make sure my pay gets deposited on time. Jobs come and go, i'm a contractor for the gubament, I should know. I've accepted that i'll, more than likely, be looking for work every 5 or so years. The days of security are over, you better be able to be competitive... I'm not saying I agree with it, it's just the way it is.

[WouldaShoulda]

I'm confident what ever the issue, throwing more money at it that we don't have will be the answer.

Just like "Green Jobs" was!!

Solar company that Obama visited will shut down

15 months after President Barack Obama visited a company factory that was to be expanded with the help of a federal loan guarantee.

The Chapter 11 filing, expected next week, will make Solyndra the third U.S. solar company to seek bankruptcy protection in the last month. Former Wall Street high flyer Evergreen Solar Inc filed for Chapter 11 two weeks ago, followed four days later by SpectraWatt Inc, a private company that was backed by Intel Corp.

Representative Henry Waxman of the House Committee on Energy and Commerce said the bankruptcies "are unfortunate warnings that the United States is in danger of losing its leadership position in the clean energy economy of the future ... We should be doing everything possible to ensure the United States does not cede the renewable energy market to China and other countries."

Solar company that Obama visited will shut down | Reuters

Damn those Teaparty rats!!

This would never have happened if Van Jones were still around!!

[merc2dogs]

Originally Posted by SloopJonB

Just by the by, that was NOT a quote from me but I entirely agree.

Somehow it didn't take what I pasted, likely a pebkac error