'Greatest generation' vs Baby boomers

[killarney_sailor]

A number of days ago I mentioned the book, "That Used to be Us". Here is one of the interesting and important points made by the authors.

They posit that one of the main reasons for the current economic/government/societal mess that the US (and to a greater or lesser extent other countries) is in, is the replacement in positions of authority (government and business) of members of the Greatest Generation by members of the Baby Boomer generation; this transition happening from the 1980s onward and basically complete now. (It occurred to me that Warren Buffet) may be about the last example of the GG in a prominent position and may explain why his take on things is out of the mainstream.)

They suggest that the current generation of leaders have been "more than a little selfish, pampered, and, at times, reckless and irresponsible". The reasons for this include the fact that they had not to had to sacrifice, have not faced a "huge global predator" (ie the Depression, Nazis/Japanese, Soviet Union) and that the result has been a loss of the core values that American greatness was based.

In particular, they focus on three lost values:
1. A shift from long-term investments and delayed gratification to short term gratification and get-it-now-while-you-can-thinking.
2. A loss of confidence in our institutions and in the authority of leaders across society (government, scientific, and business). That there has been a shift from healthy skepticism to cynical suspicion of everything and everyone.
3. A weakening of the sense of shared national purpose.

They say that these lost values are central to the problems that exist today and that they must be rebuilt if the US is to overcome them.

What do you think?

[LandLocked66c]

I agree that things will get better when the boomers are no longer the majority/in power...

[jackdale]

I might have to read this.

Just a couple of thoughts.

The Dutch futurist Fred Polak wrote in The Image of the Future, "The and fall of civilizations is a preceded or accompanied by the rise and fall of images of the future." The conservative /Tea Party movement has its eyes fixed firmly on the past. The book is a kind of social version of Viktor Frankel's "Man's Search for Meaning."

In 1980-81 I spent a year doing grad work in the studies of the futures. There was a growth in long-term strategic planning at that time. I sometimes associate that interest with the the approach of 1984. Today the quarterly report has replaced long-term planning. Building a home has been replaced by flipping.

A whole "me" generation has replaced a "we" generation. Social responsibility has been supplanted by individual needs. In Canada one downside to our Charter was the shift in emphasis from responsibilities to rights.

BTW - I was born in 1947.

[killarney_sailor]

Originally Posted by jackdale

I might have to read this.


BTW - I was born in 1947.

I was born in 1948 so qualify as well.

I think it is a terrific read. In a sense what the authors have to say is pretty straight-forward and commonsense, but their prescriptions for the future require a sea change in attitudes and motivations and I wonder if people are able to make such profound changes?

[LandLocked66c]

Originally Posted by killarney_sailor

I was born in 1948 so qualify as well.

I think it is a terrific read. In a sense what the authors have to say is pretty straight-forward and commonsense, but their prescriptions for the future require a sea change in attitudes and motivations and I wonder if people are able to make such profound changes?

I certainly hope things change! But you are right, is it possible? The fact that capitalism is global now has a lot to do with how people think and support themselves. Still, other countries are not "like" the US, but seems it would impact how we do business locally since others have adapted to do business with us... Does that make sense?

[kd3pc]

Originally Posted by killarney_sailor

In particular, they focus on three lost values:
1. A shift from long-term investments and delayed gratification to short term gratification and get-it-now-while-you-can-thinking.
2. A loss of confidence in our institutions and in the authority of leaders across society (government, scientific, and business). That there has been a shift from healthy skepticism to cynical suspicion of everything and everyone.
3. A weakening of the sense of shared national purpose.

They say that these lost values are central to the problems that exist today and that they must be rebuilt if the US is to overcome them.

What do you think?

All great thoughts, but those "in power" seem to forget, or deny this history.

I am all for 30 year mortgages, >20% down, ability to repay...or allowing that corporate growth of 6-10% a year for many years is far better than 50% growth this year and bankruptcy next year. But we consumers, not just boomers, want it all, NOW! We are not willing to sacrifice or save money for anything...just more debt..

There is NO confidence in business or politics as they have become so crooked, so irresponsible, and so incestuous, that most can not tell one from the other....how do we unwind that knot?

Sadly, we have no shared national anything, and by and large we are a nation of rude, ill-mannered, PC, xxx-americans, who want "someone" to make it all better, and BTW now with the prevailing mind set of "entitled" - I want it all today, I don't want to work, take responsibility for my self or my offspring, or to have to do anything that "I" don't want to, how will things every improve.

We may have reached the tipping point that precludes us from regaining those values and until a leader either in business or politics, steps up to lead away from the PC, rhetoric, entitled mindset, and hyphenated citizens - America may well be on it's last legs.

I was born in 1955, so that makes me a boomer.

[killarney_sailor]

Originally Posted by LandLocked66c

Still, other countries are not "like" the US, but seems it would impact how we do business locally since others have adapted to do business with us... Does that make sense?

Another of the points in this book is that people in countries like China and Mexico are trying to do their best to be like the US in terms of business, economics and culture. It is just that they are better focused and work harder - hence their success. In fact, they better model the values of the US Greatest Generation than do the Baby Boomers. For example, most Chinese people have a great deal of respect for their government in spite of the fact that there is not democracy. They feel that the government provides security and stability and respects their citizens' desire to work hard and get rich.

[PBzeer]

Though there is a lesson to be learned, it's one I doubt many will see. What began between the two World Wars, when the GG was coming of age and was escalated after WWII, was a paradigm shift in the relationship of citizenship and governance. To expect such a change in government, not to have a corresponding change in the governed, is, at best, naive. And certainly not something that it would be fashionable, to contemplate.

Addendum: I was also born in the first half of the last century.

[killarney_sailor]

Originally Posted by PBzeer

Though there is a lesson to be learned, it's one I doubt many will see. What began between the two World Wars, when the GG was coming of age and was escalated after WWII, was a paradigm shift in the relationship of citizenship and governance. To expect such a change in government, not to have a corresponding change in the governed, is, at best, naive. And certainly not something that it would be fashionable, to contemplate.

Addendum: I was also born in the first half of the last century.

What these authors are suggesting is that there has to be a shift in both governed and government ... and business too for that matter.

The impression I have, based on the many Americans I have met, is that they would be willing to make the changes because they can see that the economic and political systems of the last 30 years have not worked in the longer term. What I think is entirely lacking is the leadership both in government and beyond to make fundamental changes and to inspire people to a new (or perhaps old) national purpose.

[SloopJonB]

I was born too early in the baby boom to be able to convincingly deny being part of it or I would. It's downright embarrassing to be part of the biggest bunch of self absorbed, self righteous, pains in the a$$ that ever lived. Stupidities like 3 ton SUV's to go to the mall, 5000 sq. ft. houses for two people, $25000 handbags for trophy wives etc. are inexcusable.

Having said that, the truth of the OP's comparison, as it always does, lies somewhere in the middle.

The BB is also primarily responsible for civil rights being where they are today - far from perfect but the simple fact of a black president speaks volumes - when I was in high school black people were still being murdered with impunity for simply attempting to register to vote.

The BB was the driving force behind ending the war in Viet Nam.

The BB was responsible for the freer, more accommodating style of life we now enjoy - people forget how strict everyday life was before us, so many rules - I remember my mother HAVING to wear white gloves - it was simply expected. My father had a rack of starched, white dress shirts that he had to wear to work at the lab - he hated them but the social expectations of the "Man in the grey flannel suit" required it. Read that book if you have no experience of what life in the 50's & 60's was like for the GG.

Women, people of colour, (I hate that term, so PC) people with handicaps etc. didn't have it NEARLY so good in the time of the GG - their daily freedoms and mainstream access is due to the youthful actions of the BB.

Environmental improvements like breathable air in LA are due to the pressure of the BB.

There is a book titled "Born at the Right Time" about the BB - that title is the most perfect description of the BB I've ever heard. We were SO lucky.

We've also done an extremely good job, in the main, with rearing our kids IMHO. Kids these days are so much nicer, sharper and just generally better than generations before them. Fathers are much more involved with them now as well - not just the breadwinner.

I also find that the most angry, ignorant and resentful people around are generally pretty old - pre-BB in most cases.

Remember to take off the rose coloured "good old days" glasses when looking back at the GG. We tend to remember the good and forget the bad when nostalgia rears its head.

As to how things will change when the BB relinquishes the reins - - that's what WE said.