Iranian navy coming to America

[SloopJonB]

Originally Posted by PCP

Regarding the first world countries China does not need that. He has them by the balls because all are in debt with China with huge amounts of money and each year more.

That is a common misconception. In fact, rather than having us by the balls, they are riding the Tiger. The huge debt they hold is not really leverage for them, rather it binds them to the debtor nations they are dependent on. All the USA and other western nations have to do is put up some trade barriers and China's emerging economy will stop - no customers.

There is an old saying about debt - if you owe the Bank $100,000 you are in trouble - if you owe them $100,000,000 THEY are in trouble.

[SloopJonB]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

If a peope disagree with their government yet are unwilling to change it, I'd still say it is the government they deserve.

In the colonies we used to ride scoundrels out of town on a split rail--split side up. Or cover them in tar and feathers. Both fine traditions that we seem to have forgotten, and look at the infestation of scoundrels (both in and out of government) that we've earned this way.

As Walt Kelly said, we have met the enemy and he is us. Revolutions happen, with or without arms and violence. Governments and states get changed. Those who are content to submit to whatever it is, whether they disagree with it or not, are supporting it. So we/they deserve it. Equally.

Was it in Young Frankenstein that someone joked "The peasants are revolting" ?

They certainly are! You make it sound very easy to get rid of a primitive, ignorant, murderous, tyrannical police state. It takes a LITTLE bit more than voting against them in the next rigged election.

[PCP]

Originally Posted by SloopJonB

That is a common misconception. In fact, rather than having us by the balls, they are riding the Tiger. The huge debt they hold is not really leverage for them, rather it binds them to the debtor nations they are dependent on. All the USA and other western nations have to do is put up some trade barriers and China's emerging economy will stop - no customers.

There is an old saying about debt - if you owe the Bank $100,000 you are in trouble - if you owe them $100,000,000 THEY are in trouble.

Well that is a funny point of view and I don't agree. The trade is regulated by international conventions and you cannot block a single country like China without raising a big storm and you don't want to surfer the consequences of that storm on the global economy. Besides a huge number of American and European companies make their products in China to sell them elsewhere.

Regarding the dept they have just not to lend more to create a market rise in interests for the money US and Europe will have to borrow. Do you really believe that it is better to be the one that has a huge dept that the one that has lent the money?

Do you have looked at China deficit and it's growth (GDP) on the last 10 years? Compare that with the one from western countries and US and see who is in trouble.

Regards

Paulo

[SloopJonB]

Originally Posted by PCP

Do you really believe that it is better to be the one that has a huge dept that the one that has lent the money?

So far it's worked pretty well for people like Trump. One of the most fundamental rules of wealth creation is "Use other peoples money, not your own"

As I said re: riding the Tiger - once indebtedness reaches a high enough point, the lender is trapped. If they attempt to force repayment of the loan they go down with the debtor or at least get too badly hurt for it to be a reasonable alternative. They are forced to work with the debtor to find a solution that works for both sides, even if it just means minimizing their losses. Enormous debt makes both sides partners, not one superior and one subordinate.

At the risk of repeating myself, see Donald Trump. How many times has he been on the edge of insolvency and had to work out refinance plans for hundreds of $millions or even $billions with reluctant lenders?

As to trade barriers, there are many ways to implement these without putting up formal tariff walls. The Japanese are expert at this. They simply create bureaucratic barriers instead. They don't want your vegetables coming in? go ahead and ship them - they will sit in their containers on the docks until the "inspectors" can get around to looking at them, by which time they have rotted. Want to import cars? Just meet some arcane "safety" rules which make it completely unprofitable to sell them, and so on.

Anyone can play that game. Considering the quality and product safety problems that are rampant in Chinese products, it would be no problem to stop them while not "officially" stopping them.

Remember, we are talking about the worlds most powerful country with the worlds largest economy here, not a bit player like Greece - you can't fight city hall.

[zaliasvejas]

@ SloopJon,

..about my avatar, there is a story behind it, but getting flustered was not the solution...

[SloopJonB]

Originally Posted by zaliasvejas

@ SloopJon,

..about my avatar, there is a story behind it, but getting flustered was not the solution...

I knew that. You were careening it to paint the bottom, right?

I subscribe to the old saying, "If you have never hit bottom, either you have never left the dock or you're a liar".

I, myself, personally have hit bottom 4 times in 40 years but I've never been stranded.

[knothead]

The Iranians are probably just coming to help pick up the pieces.


BBC News - Iran says Wall Street protests to topple US capitalism

[steel]

If you but trade barriers on China Walmart would be half empty ... What would people do? A very large number of things would become unavailable. There are other Asian countries which make many of the things that China does so not everything would come to an end but it would be a major disruption. Look what happened when part of Japan got hit by the tsunami. There were shortages in types of flash memory.

I think the Iranian Navy can refuel in South America. Even Cuba.

How big is Iran's Navy? I know they recently bought two diesel submarines from Russia.

[VetMike]

That's an awful long way to row....