A little secret up north that can kill you

[bubb2]

I been reading the boys going on and on about how Canada is safer than the USA because of the gun laws. Lets get real, being killed by a gun in either country is a rare occurrence percentage wise.

Let's talk about heat disease. Heart disease is going to kill 41% of us and for the ladies the % is even higher.

The reason this is on my mind is I had a heart biopsy today as a follow up to my heart transplant. After my biopsy I was asked by my Dr. if I would speak to a Canadian who was in the hospital going through the work up for a heart transplant about my transplant.

I had a very nice conversation with the man and I learned a lot about the Canadian health care system they are so proud of. This man was in the US willing to pay cash for a transplant. He would probably not live long enough to get on the waiting list in Canada. So I asked a lot of questions and did some research.

Only 14% of the Canadian population are organ donors, in the US that number is 28%. There are only 160 to 180 heart transplants done in Canada each year as there is such a shortage of organs, In fact 10% hearts transplanted in Canada are American hearts. To put this in prospective the heart center I go to does 100 +/- transplants a year and it's not the largest in the state.

For you Canadian readers if you want to save lives, quit worrying about American gun laws and become an organ donor. Yes, this a subject close to my heart.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by bubb2

For you Canadian readers if you want to save lives, quit worrying about American gun laws and become an organ donor. Yes, this a subject close to my heart.

I was a blood donor (we do not get paid) for a long time and I have a donor card signed on the back of my Alberta Health Care Card (the one that get me my free health care).

A relative with CF just had a lung transplant. (free)

US cost - Heart/Lung $135,000 - $250,000 (range) $210,000 (mean)

http://www.chfpatients.com/tx/transplant.htm#who

Once it is determined that you need a transplant and are a candidate, you will be placed on a waiting list. The waiting time can vary from days to several months depending on organ availability, your blood group, and how ill you are.

http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/106/14/1750.full

[bubb2]

Originally Posted by jackdale

I was a blood donor (we do not get paid) for a long time and I have a donor card signed on the back of my Alberta Health Care Card (the one that get me my free health care).

A relative with CF just had a lung transplant.

Jake we don't don't get paid for being a donor; your free system is killing people and don't tell me it's not because I met a man today who is half dead because of your system. (his words not mine).

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by bubb2

Jake we don't don't get paid for being a donor; your free system is killing people and don't tell me it's not because I met a man today who is half dead because of your system. (his words not mine).

Your system does not kill people; they just die without care.

Although the United States now spends $2.4 trillion a year on medical care -- vastly more per capita than comparable countries -- the nation ranks near the bottom on premature deaths caused by illnesses such as diabetes, epilepsy, stroke, influenza, ulcers and pneumonia, according to research by the nonpartisan Commonwealth Fund published in the journal Health Affairs.

Some lawmakers theorized that the rate could be related to trauma from guns and automobiles.

Although gun and auto fatality rates are higher here than they are in most wealthy nations, the statistics underscore more complex, fundamental challenges, say physicians, economists and other experts who track health-care systems across the world.

"Chronic illnesses are a much bigger driver of health-care costs" than trauma cases such as vehicle crashes and gunshots, said Robert Shesser, head of emergency medicine at George Washington University. "Because of our wacky system, some people are bankrupted or avoiding care and some are getting too much care -- they're hogging care."

HOW THE US STACKS UP ON PREVENTABLE DEATHS

1. France -- 65
2. Japan -- 71
3. Australia -- 71
4. Spain -- 74
5. Italy -- 74
6. Canada -- 77
7. Norway -- 80
8. Netherlands -- 82
9. Sweden -- 82
10. Greece --84
11. Austria -- 84
12. Germany -- 90
13. Finland -- 93
14. New Zealand -- 96
15. Denmark -- 101
16. UK -- 103
17. Ireland --103
18. Portugal --104
19. US -- 110
The U.S. ranks at the bottom of 19 industrialized nations in the number of preventable deaths by conditions such as diabetes, epilepsy, stroke, influenza, ulcers, pneumonia, infant mortality and appendicitis. The number at the right represents the number of preventable deaths per 100,000 population in each country in 2002-2003.
Source: Commonwealth Fund, Health Affairs, World Health Organization

U.S. Losing Ground on Preventable Deaths

[bubb2]

Jack, Please dig up all the quotes you wish. I am alive because our system works and your countryman who has free health care is in the states with his check book open to get health care.

Jack, your copy and paste does not trump real people who are living it.

[BentSailor]

So if I understand your argument bubb2, you'll take a few personal examples over researched statistics? And you'll state that anyone disagreeing that your few personal examples don't make a national case are flat-out wrong and their system is killing people? You don't think we can find examples of people dying due to the healthcare system the US has? Seriously?

Our government-funded healthcare system saved my son, assisted my wife through four children, and have kept the commodore of our sailing club sailing racing in 16ft dinghies at the age of ninety-eight. We can swap anecdotes all day long, which is why those pesky quotes and figures you disparage are much better at sorting fact from perception. Sorry, I'll take well-researched facts over anonymous anecdotes any day.

[bubb2]

Brent, i am talking about transplants and only 14% of the Canadian population are donors. That's what I was talking about. With such a shortage of organs I would think you bleeding hearts could do better. No pun intended.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by bubb2

Brent, i am talking about transplants and only 14% of the Canadian population are donors. That's what I was talking about. With such a shortage of organs I would think you bleeding hearts could do better. No pun intended.

OK

Donation matters: demographics and organ transplants in Canada, 2000-2040, a report by David Baxter and Jim Smerdon had some interesting findings. It appears that Canada's low rate of organ donation in comparison to other countries is not a result of lack of generosity or altruism, but because of better health practices. Canada’s risk of death from automobile accidents or gunshot wounds is much lower than the United States. Canadian’s access to excellent health care also lowers the probability of death.

Canadian Association of Transplantation

Damn guns.

[bubb2]

Originally Posted by jackdale

US cost - Heart/Lung $135,000 - $250,00

Jack, just so you know your figures are not even close.

[SloopJonB]

Originally Posted by bubb2

For you Canadian readers if you want to save lives, quit worrying about American gun laws and become an organ donor.

Absolutely right. The biggest problem with that here is that they make it difficult to be a donor. You used to be able to declare it on your drivers license but that wasn't good enough for the bureaucrats so now you have to go through a separate registration process with the Ministry of Health. Guess what - people don't do it now.

I saw a bit on the tube recently about a Scandinavian country (Denmark?) that has "negative option" organ donation as law. If you DON'T want to be a donor you must register, otherwise you are assumed to be a donor. Should be like that everywhere IMHO.

Originally Posted by bubb2

Yes, this a subject close to my heart.

As to your experience with the Canadian transplant patient - to start with that is what is known as anecdotal evidence, not statistical or proof. Next, the people that go to the States for treatment are most often just impatient queue jumpers and are inherently negative about our system, warranted or not. I doubt that even in your system you just get a heart transplant on demand, like buying a car.