European Economy

[PCP]

Originally Posted by danjarch

The different European nations are similar to the different US states. With the exception that the US states in a lot of ways have more room to be different.
...

I guess you don't know many European countries

They are vastly different based on independent cultures that are thousands of years old. The fact they are more concerned about ecological issues just makes them wiser and more prudent, a bit like a middle aged man that thinks twice before doing something compared with a kid that is always ready to jump in any adventure without knowing quite well in what is going to meddle with.

Regards

Paulo

[jzk]

Originally Posted by PCP

Great post

Finally we have the example of the Aral see, an huge sea that they think it was going to last forever even if they were pumping huge amounts of water to the cotton fields. Today the Aral sea is a small lake with unsuitable water for drinking and the once fertile cotton fields are today waste land, desert land.

We need to be very careful when playing with mother nature and listen carefully what the serious ecologists have to say about the long term consequences of a project otherwise the search of a quick profit would turn fertile land into a desert.Paulo

As you fully well know the Aral Sea was destroyed by the Soviets. They just took what they wanted without any regard to the effects. And they polluted with no regard whatsoever to the environment. Weapons testing and the like.

My premise has been that our water problems are logistical problems. And, it is helpful in understanding the problem to understand the water cycle and the fact that water on this planet is pretty much constant. Nor am I saying that I "invented" this kind of analysis. Sound water management is taking place in many places. In others, not so much.

Nowhere do I advocate destroying the environment with reckless abandon. No doubt you could list many more examples of unnecessary environmental damage. However, I don't have a problem changing some of the environment to suit our purposes. Where my house sits there were many trees. Now there is a house and a concrete driveway. I don't feel bad about it. There are still many many trees, and all kinds of wildlife. Fort Lauderdale used to be one big mangrove swamp. They dug out canals and filled in islands. It is a very man made place, and there are less mangrove swamps than there were. But there are still many many mangrove swamps. I find it to be a nice accomplishment. However, it could never happen in today's day and age where the environmentalists oppose everything.

[danjarch]

Originally Posted by PCP

I guess you don't know many European countries

They are vastly different based on independent cultures that are thousands of years old. The fact they are more concerned about ecological issues just makes them wiser and more prudent, a bit like a middle aged man that thinks twice before doing something compared with a kid that is always ready to jump in any adventure without knowing quite well in what is going to meddle with.

Regards

Paulo

Why do you lead with an insult. I'm well aware of the history of Europe as well as I'm aware that that history makes it that much harder to form a real union. Speak all you want about middle aged men. In my experience, middle aged men don't put all their egg's in one basket, is what I'm saying. Betting to much on the latest belief is one of Europe's biggest problems.

I'm saying is that it would be better to let a few countries that can better afford it or have better conditions for it, do the lifting on something like green power. That's what keeps putting America on top. Not every state feels compelled to go after the latest thing. We tend to focus on what works better for each state.

In this case, California has focused on green energy. How well it will work is still an open question, but since California has been on the cutting edge of that type of stuff, and at least they were pretty well off, it doesn't hurt us if they try and it fails.

Conversely, in Texas they've focused on new techniques to go after old resources. Again, it's an open question of whether these will succeed, but again Texas is a leader in these fields and can do this with out endangering the rest of the country.

I feel this is mostly because of what you mentioned. Each country has it's own past and thinking of or taking pride in another EU nation is still a distant second to the European mind. Because of this, instead of taking pride in the efforts of Germany and Spain to push the barriers on green energy, while Portugal and Romania focus on things that make the most of their resources, Portugal and Romania feel like they got to match the others in green energy mandates, subsidies, and laws.

[PCP]

Originally Posted by danjarch

Why do you lead with an insult. I'm well aware of the history of Europe as well as I'm aware that that history makes it that much harder to form a real union.

Jesus Dan, I had not the slightest intent to insult you. See that smile on the post? But one thing is knowing history other is to perceive cultural differences and different attitudes towards life. You would not feel that through history books, only being there and experiencing it.

This was about you saying that the Europeans were more homogeneous than the Americans. Do you know that the simple fact that you think in your own native language is relevant in what concerns the ways of thought? Do you know how many native languages are in Europe? Each language is a support of a different culture and each culture has its slightly different way to look at reality.

So this question is relevant and not an insult:

How many European countries do you actually know, and I am not talking about books, but living there for a while? because that's the only way to experience those differences.

Originally Posted by danjarch

....
I feel this is mostly because of what you mentioned. Each country has it's own past and thinking of or taking pride in another EU nation is still a distant second to the European mind. Because of this, instead of taking pride in the efforts of Germany and Spain to push the barriers on green energy, while Portugal and Romania focus on things that make the most of their resources, Portugal and Romania feel like they got to match the others in green energy ...

This does make not any sense. So, you don't think that having a leading edge on energy production through renewable resources is an economical asset and it is just a kind of expensive hobby?

Well as you certainly know Portugal is living troubled times and one of the things that the government is doing is privatizing its shares on companies and the most interesting was EDP (21%) precisely the one that produces energy not only through renewable sources but that has a leading position on production of energy that way. They sell technology to 13 different countries.

The company has bought by the Chinese that had offered 54% over what the company shares worth on the market and they had to beat a very aggressive competition (Germans and Brazilians). what make the government decide for the Chinese (the other's were also good offers) was because the Chinese company is the leading company in Chinese production of energy through renewable sources (huge company, owner of the biggest dam in the world) and they are investing as much as what they have paid for the shares.

So do you still think that Portugal ... feel like they got to match the others in green energy like that was not significant in what regards economic development and added value?

Regards

Paulo

[PCP]

That's frightening, but if uou are not afraid, take a look:

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