The Truth as I know It

[928frenzy]

To those who claim "god" created the universe, I ask "Who created god? Where did he/she/it come from?" If the answer is, "No one created God, he''s always been there", then my reply is "If you can believe that God has always been there, then why can''t you accept the possibility that the universe has always been there? That is a notion that I can accept, and thus, I do not need a god to create things that already exist.

Christianity is indeed a religion. More correctly, it''s a break-away sect of Judism.

In any event, it all comes down to whether you believe the stories in the bible(s) are the word of God transcribed by men or they''re stories by men claiming them to be the word of a god. It appears that you believe those men were transcribers. I don''t.

Lastly, since the earth''s surface is about 71% water, it should come as no surprise that sailing is mentioned so many times in bibles (or in literature in general). This is especially true when you consider over 90% of the world''s population lives within sight of navigable waters.

Unfortunately for me, I don''t live that close to sea, but I hope to rectify that sitution. In the meantime, I''ll trek on down to the Bay and (hopefully) sail away. ;^)

~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~

[Stede]

928frenzy,

My friend. I don’t know who created God, but I do know that he created you, and loves you. Let me ask you this, who created man’s conscious? You place a lot of value on science and I assume evolution. Did man evolve to know in his heart what is good and bad? Does not the dog know that his vomit is bad, but he returns to eat it?

You are right about it coming down to believing whether the Bible is indeed the inspired word of God. Through his word, he gave us many examples of truths so that we may believe.

The fall of Tyre

Tyre was a prominent seaport of Phonecia that had dealt treacherously with ancient Israel, her southern neighbor that worshipped God. Through a prophet named Ezekial, God fortold it’s complete destruction over 250 years before it happened.

Cyrus and the fall of Babylon

History records that Babylon took the Jews into captivity. Yet, about 40 years before this happened Jeremiah foretold it. Isaiah predicted it some 150 years before it happened. He also foretold that the Jews would return from captivity. So did Jeremiah, saying that they would be restored to their land 70 years.

This return was made possible by the overthrow of Babylon by the Meds and Persians in 539 B.C. It was foretold by Isaiah nearly 200 years before it happened, and by Jeremiah about 50 years before it occurred.

The destruction of Jerusalum

Jesus was the greatest Prophet of all. He foretold of this event in Luke 19:43, 44. True to the prophecy, Roman armies under Cestious Gallus came against Jerusalem in 66 C.E. Strangely though, he did not press the siege to it’s completion, but as the first-century historian Flavious Josephus reported : “He retired from the city, without any reason in the world.” The historian Eusebius reported “with the siege unexpectedly lifted, the Christians did flee Jerusalem

Four years later, in 70 C.E. Roman armies under general Titus returned and encircled Jeruselum. The city was indeed destroyed and about 1,100,00 died during the siege.

***There is much historical and archeological proof to show that these, and other events did occur, and that they were foretold of in the Bible.Do some research on the Dead Sea Scrolls to confirm that the prophecies were given before events were fulfilled. So don’t take my word for it my friend, look it up in the sciences.

***God referred to Sodom and Gomorrah as “an exceedingly wicked” city. He placed his judgement on it, and it was destroyed. Idolism and depravity were abundant. In the United States, and the world today, are we so much different now, than they were then? In the past, the U.S. has been blessed because we were a Godly nation. Look around at the events taking place today. I am concerned it’s no longer true. Other prophecies the Bible foretold are happening today.Storms are on the horizon my friend.Prepare your Temple,and that of your family and loved ones,then worry about your boat. I implore you to read your Bible and see the truth for yourself. Then ask yourself this question. Am I ready?

[928frenzy]

In my opinion, man created god in his own image. He did so to exercise control over other humans. To this day, religious leaders use god/religion to get their followers to do their bidding.

Personally, I know what is right and wrong. Not because the bible tells me what is good or evil, but because I have a good sense of morality and ethics thanks to philosophers like Confusius. It was he that came up with the "Golden Rule", and if you think about it, that''s all that man really needs for guidance.

I have read the KJV version of the bible, cover to cover. Sorry, but I was not impressed. To me, it has too many contraditions, omission, and factual errors to consider it "truth" by any stretch of my imagination. However, I will never tell anyone "don''t believe in it" or anything else for that matter. Nor would I tell anyone "you must believe what I believe". To each their own. Live and let live. That''s basically the bottom line. Believe whatever you want (so long as it doesn''t infringe on others), and likewise - let me believe in whatever I want so long as I don''t infringe on others.

Using this BBS for religious discussions is an infringement on those who expect it to be about sailing related topics. By now you and others should realise that I''m not converting, and that this topic has dragged on long enough. I for one would like nothing better to do than read about SAILING topics on this BBS. Can we get back to that?

~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~

[Stede]

My brother,DelmarRey

Please check your messege center here.

[DelmarRey]

928,
You say there are contraditions in the bible. Can you give me some examples (in context)!
And you must be enjoying these waters, you keep sailing back into them. Or maybe the winds are in your favor.
............................................._/)

[928frenzy]

Mentioning the contraditions I''ve found in the KJV version of the bible would only add more fuel the fire that keeps this thread alive, which is the last thing I want to happen.

I suggest you go to a BBS that allows open and honest discussion of religious topics, then ask the Agnostics or Pagans to give you examples of those contraditions, of which there are many. To illustrate my point on just one, It is written that God created light. However, according to Genisis, he did so before he created the Sun, and that''s just within the first page of the bible! :^(

~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~

[bwalker42]

928,

I just wanted to say that the first time I read the bible I had what I thought were contradictions. I have since read the bible through several more times with great enjoyment, and great questions for the One Who is, and was, and is to come. And I take my questions straight to Him, because I want an answer. I want the truth, and He shows me, every time. He''s soooooooo good!



This is the second most beautiful thing I have seen on the face of the earth; Men who love God and their wives, and live their lives with joy doing what they were created to do. And I know that God loves Sailing because He created it!!!

I have seen the Angel, and I have seen the devil! The Angel is beautiful beyond compare! White like I have never seen before! Gentle and graceful, loving and kind.
And very tall! I couldn''t see His face, perhaps if I had I wouldn''t be here to tell about it.
The devil also was very tall, looked like a giant human, I did see his face. It was hard and angry, and I could tell he hated me.
So I have seen the Angel, and the devil. The Angel is much better and is on our side. The devil hates us (Humans) and wants to destroy us all.

He who has ears to hear "The kingdom of heaven is at hand"!

Gentle kind prayers, and Fair Winds,
Brenda

[Stede]

928frenzy,

My friend. I won''t debate with you the verses of the Bible,because that would indeed take up wasted space here.The audience here is much more intelligent than I am anyway.They can read the text of Genesis for themselves and judge your so called "contradiction."

I will tell you this though.God is the light. His radiance can light up anywhere that so pleases him.

[bubb2]

928frenzy

So where is the contradition. Unless you believe that the sun was the first source of light. However, you as an intelligent man and believer in science would know that our sun is a young star and could not possibly be the first source of light. Maybe Polaris was the first star. (keeping with a nautical theme) But, that could not be so as we know about black holes which are burned out stars. Makes you think about what is time?

There are mysteries to sailing and there are to mysteries to the heavens and mysteries to our reason for being. Each of us will find the anwsers that we need in our own way and time.

When I am alone on the boat, sailing at night, these questions come to mind. I don''t claim to know the anwsers.

A good sailor does not relay only on one souce of navigation. (i.e. charts, gps, DR, & fix''s) If you feel that a source of navigation is not correct one does not discount it totaly as it maybe correct latter on.

You try so hard to disprove something that mortal man has no way of knowing, one way or the other. I am not trying to change your beliefs. But, please keep an open mind.

I have enjoyed following this coversation and your instights. However, no one''s mind is going to be changed by this discussion.

Please, for the sake of the BB, do not fall into the trap of thinking by getting the last word in will some how add more weight to your side of the dicussion. You are smarter than that.

[928frenzy]

bubb2:
I''m really not trying to get in the last word. To prove it I ask that you respond with a message to indicate you either agree or don''t.

This is only to say that I agree that like you, I don''t know the answers (which is why I consider myself an AGNOSTIC - and not an Atheist). Also, I do indeed have an open mind - perhaps too open. :^(

Lastly, you''re right, no one''s mind will be changed by these exchanges, and I (unlike others) was not trying to do so. Remember, I was the one who said - "Believe whatever you want, but let me believe what I want. Live and let live."

On that note - "Sail and let sail." ;^)

~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~