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post #11 of 43 Old 05-02-2014 Thread Starter
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Re: Legality of 2 strokes.

I notice that the evenrude 15hp weighs in at around 170 lbs. What is the point of a 2 stroke that is heavier than the 4 stroke?

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Originally Posted by DRFerron View Post
Evinrude sells a 2-stroke.

http://www.evinrude.com/en-US/extra/data

I'm curious. Why would you have a problem buying one?
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post #12 of 43 Old 05-02-2014
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Re: Legality of 2 strokes.

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Originally Posted by jzk View Post
I notice that the evenrude 15hp weighs in at around 170 lbs. What is the point of a 2 stroke that is heavier than the 4 stroke?
I don't know. Perhaps it is due to the EPA standards they had to meet in order to keep it on the market?

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post #13 of 43 Old 05-02-2014
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Re: Legality of 2 strokes.

Just like in motorcycles the hole shot with a 2 stroke tends to be better. Also given such a simple engine easy to wrench. I had a old sea gull that I used for 20+ years. Finally gave it away as could not get parts with out a lot of hassle. I have a 2HP Yamaha 2 stroke of same vintage which I still use on a square back canoe for fishing. It sits for months - then one pull and it goes. No neutral or reverse so not a good dinghy engine.
It's a shame they were outlawed. If the Yama got wet a squirt of ether in the cylinder put the plug back in and go to town. Amount of pollution trivial compared with a poorly tuned 4 stroke or when a 4 stroke is run with choke or too rich.

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post #14 of 43 Old 05-02-2014
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Re: Legality of 2 strokes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRFerron View Post
Evinrude sells a 2-stroke.

http://www.evinrude.com/en-US/extra/data

I'm curious. Why would you have a problem buying one?
Not sure what the Federal regulations are/were. However, Lake Tahoe, which is about 20 miles from us, prohibits any carbureted two strokes. IIRC, some of the manufacturers are offering direct injection 2 strokes on larger motors which apparently meet the emission requirements as shown on the link.

It was said that the 2 stroke ban on Tahoe was merely a backdoor attempt to ban Jet Skis. Along came 4 stroke and direct injection 2 stroke jet skis, which are still with us.


Some years back there was proposed legislation, which was narrowly defeated, in California, to ban 2 strokes on any body of water that eventually drained into any drinking water supply. That would have effected almost all fresh water lakes in the state. It seems likely, to me, anyway, that the EPA will do that, and not allow existing 2 strokes to be grandfathered.

I have owned 8 - 2 stroke outboards, both large & small, plus 2 -4 strokes which are considerately heavier than comparable 4 strokes. 2 strokes are much easier to start manually, and when properly jetted & run hard, smoke very little, just at low speed & when first started. I was forced to buy a 4 stroke to fish on Lake Tahoe, but no doubt 2 strokes will be banned on all fresh water sources, followed by coastal salt water & bays.

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post #15 of 43 Old 05-02-2014
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Re: Legality of 2 strokes.

Thanks Paul. Your response covers the use of. The OP asked for the regulations covering the sale of. My confusion.

Donna


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post #16 of 43 Old 05-02-2014
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Re: Legality of 2 strokes.

The issue for the EPA is that car berated 2 strokes discharge a lot of crap into the water. Oil, unburned fuel soot, ect... On average they discharge about four times the amount that a four stroke does.

In this one while I hate the regulation I appreciate it. The EPA didn't say you couldn't use two strokes, just that if you did they had to meet certain discharge requirements. While this effectively eliminated all small two strokes it does allow manufacturers the ability to play with the technology if they can figure out a way to make them clean enough.

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Re: Legality of 2 strokes.

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Originally Posted by DRFerron View Post
I don't know. Perhaps it is due to the EPA standards they had to meet in order to keep it on the market?

The 15 is heavy because it is a detuned BIG HP motor in and attempt to see how small a motor they can bring the technology to and be cost effective

None of the motors are light as soon as they get electric start and tilt trim packages never-mind remote controls

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post #18 of 43 Old 05-02-2014
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Re: Legality of 2 strokes.

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Originally Posted by DRFerron View Post
Thanks Paul. Your response covers the use of. The OP asked for the regulations covering the sale of. My confusion.
No problem, it is all kind of mixed together, like 2 stroke oil. (sorry)

I guess, if you can find a new small, 10 HP or less, 2 stroke, you can still use it in many places, FOR NOW. Maybe you could buy a new one in Mexico?

Looks like 40 HP is where you can get a direct injection 2 stroke in Tohatsu, anyway, but with no weight savings over the 35HP jet drive 4 stroke.

http://www.onlineoutboards.com/Tohat...hp-and-up.html

Paul T

Last edited by dabnis; 05-02-2014 at 06:51 PM.
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post #19 of 43 Old 05-02-2014
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Re: Legality of 2 strokes.

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Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
The issue for the EPA is that car berated 2 strokes discharge a lot of crap into the water. Oil, unburned fuel soot, ect... On average they discharge about four times the amount that a four stroke does.

In this one while I hate the regulation I appreciate it. The EPA didn't say you couldn't use two strokes, just that if you did they had to meet certain discharge requirements. While this effectively eliminated all small two strokes it does allow manufacturers the ability to play with the technology if they can figure out a way to make them clean enough.
Right, like a double edged sword. We now have 4 stroke snowmobiles, jet skis,
and of course outboards, driven by emissions regulations. Out of the 10 off road motorcycles I had two were 4 strokes. I hated both of them, heavy for their power, and a killer to re-start if you dropped it.

However, 4 strokes don't smoke or smell much, that is about the only good thing about them. For the most part they are considerably heavier than comparable powered 2 strokes and, in my experience, harder to manually start than 2 strokes. It will be interesting to see if the industry continues to improve & lighten them or if they just say "what you see is what you get" ?

I hope it is the former.

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post #20 of 43 Old 05-03-2014
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Re: Legality of 2 strokes.

Paul,

They are already working on smaller and smaller four strokes. The weight is coming down, but at least for small racing boats old seagulls will continue to be the best option available.

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