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juggleandhope 05-10-2014 10:21 AM

How Low Can We Go? (hp)
 
My Int'l Folkboat has an outboard well and came with a 9.8hp 2-stroke engine that weighs 60 pounds. I hate that it drags in the water when I'm sailing, I almost never run it (and then only because I'm trying to keep it from getting gunked up), and I hate that slime and barnacles colonize while it sits in the water at the mooring. My options include;
1. deal with it - life involves imperfections.
2. fill in the well and mount it on a lifting motor bracket on the transom - apparently most of the European IF-boats do this.
3. cut out a groove in the transom so that I can tilt the engine up out of the way when I'm not using it
4. lift the engine up and out of the well when I'm not using it - leaving it on its side in the lazarette.
  • buy lifting straps for current engine and just be careful not to go overboard with the 60lbs
  • buy a lighter engine

The lighter engines would be a 3.5hp Tohatsu (40lbs), a 2.3hp Honda (30lbs), or a 5hp Lehr propane (50lbs). How low hp can we go - my boat should be around 4700 lbs, full keel (though the crane operator said it weighs 6500 which seems unlikely to me). I can probably beg a couple different sized little engines at the yacht club to try out - but with all the talk in other threads about propeller pitch I wonder if it would be a fair trial. Could the Honda (also aircooled, which is nice since the water-cooler on my current one has gotten clogged for the second time now), with a big and low pitch prop, move my boat adequately? Or at least the 3.5hp Tohatsu?

Important context - the boat's used for day-sailing though I'm hoping to do a couple of short overnights this summer too. I'm strong enough that I could lift the Tohatsu pretty well with one hand and still have a hand to hold on, the Lehr would be a little challenging, but the current 60lb engine is dicey to do with one hand, given the ergonomics. I would prefer to go engineless but for the possibility of a no-wind evening and have to work next day and because my mentors at the yacht club insist that I need an engine in case of a sudden squall that would require me to douse all sail and motor against the storm. I'm in Brooklyn. Thanks in advance for your suggestions and help.

TQA 05-10-2014 10:54 AM

Re: How Low Can We Go? (hp)
 
If you are serious about dowsing sail and motoring into a storm then you need that 9.8hp.

A Tohatsu 3.5 will do the business the rest of the time.They come in longshaft.

FSMike 05-10-2014 11:20 AM

Re: How Low Can We Go? (hp)
 
It sounds like you are going to be unhappy with any engine unless it's not in the water when you aren't using it. Removing and reinstalling it is going to be a pain regardless of weight. I would see what I could do to keep it tilted far enough to be out of the water.
I wouldn't go with less hp than the Tohatsu. It weighs less, but in your situation I would want at least 6-8 hp.
Alternatively, you could investigate a yuloh. If It's good enough for the Pardeys and a gazillion Chinese ----

Alex W 05-10-2014 11:59 AM

Re: How Low Can We Go? (hp)
 
Can you share a photo of your current motor mount? Maybe you can replace the mount with one that allows you to tilt the motor out of the water.

The motor mount on my old Catalina 25 was shimmed with some 2" stainless stock to push it farther from the transom of the boat. That allowed the engine to pivot farther and got the prop well out of the water.

It's the left-most boat in this photo (that's from a race last week):
https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/...21542351_n.jpg

You can see the square tubes that shim it in this photo:
Lutra April 2012 - AlexAndChristine

Folk boats are pretty chunky, I wouldn't go below 6hp with a high thrust prop.

dabnis 05-10-2014 04:04 PM

Re: How Low Can We Go? (hp)
 
A lot has to do with how rough & currents you have to buck. We had a Coronado 25, similar to your size boat, about 5,000 lbs loaded, with a good well arrangement that allowed us to tilt the motor all the way up out of the water We had a 6HP 2 stroke which was OK in calm water but struggled in the heavy chop both inside & outside of San Francisco Bay.

We went to a 15HP 2 stroke, which was the same size & weight as the 9.9HP, which probably been enough power, both the 6HP & 15HP were equipped with lower than standard props. Seldom did we use all the power the 15HP put out.

I have seen many boats in the Bay with transom mounted motors screaming their guts out when it got rough, plus the weight is higher and further aft. If the structural integrity of the hull would tolerate cutting an opening to allow the motor to tip up, that would seem to be a good option. I have seen Coronado's with the opening enlarged to accommodate larger, size wise, motors.

The only downside may be the boat has been somewhat "modified" a possible consideration at re-sale time. Removing the motor after each use sounds like a big pain, regardless of size.

Paul T

juggleandhope 05-11-2014 03:46 PM

Re: How Low Can We Go? (hp)
 
Thanks for the replies.

Right now I'm thinking that for this season I'll just keep the one I've got and pull it out of the well when it will be several days before I use it again, just lay it on its side (2 strokes don't mind that, right?).

Probably before that I'll try out some smaller hp engines just to see it, from someone in the club.

If I do decide to do the surgery it won't be as simple as Baldwin's - I'd be cutting into the area between the transom and the existing well. So I'd have to put up small bulkheads to keep a following sea from flooding into the actual boat, under the cockpit. Probably would have to cut off the back wall of the well and then extend the existing 3 sides back to the transom. A lot of scary work, there.

Several photos;

http://s30.postimg.org/6cj6zn441/IMG...510_120006.jpg
http://s3.postimg.org/etg6imhoj/IMG_20140510_121011.jpg
http://s12.postimg.org/9ptywe1jh/IMG...510_142839.jpg

Capt Len 05-11-2014 04:46 PM

Re: How Low Can We Go? (hp)
 
Could you extend the well walls vertically , install the OB bracket on rails so motor lifts straight and higher. Could use electric linear motor from recliner chair They're 12 volt but not very water proof .Maybe needs a raised cap for looks on the poop deck .Flemish coil on it to look salty. If you lay a 2 stroke down let it drain for a moment Exhaust port is connected to cooling .

chrissailorman 05-11-2014 05:43 PM

Re: How Low Can We Go? (hp)
 
Where do you sail in Brooklyn? On another subject, did you hear about those 2 guys who bought a Tanzer 24 in Bayshore with the intent to sail to City Island...got grounded on Elder Island off Babylon.... How do you get to City Island over the water from Bayshore?

dabnis 05-11-2014 08:57 PM

Re: How Low Can We Go? (hp)
 
[QUOTE=juggleandhope;1828650]Thanks for the replies.

Right now I'm thinking that for this season I'll just keep the one I've got and pull it out of the well when it will be several days before I use it again, just lay it on its side (2 strokes don't mind that, right?).

Probably before that I'll try out some smaller hp engines just to see it, from someone in the club.

If I do decide to do the surgery it won't be as simple as Baldwin's - I'd be cutting into the area between the transom and the existing well. So I'd have to put up small bulkheads to keep a following sea from flooding into the actual boat, under the cockpit. Probably would have to cut off the back wall of the well and then extend the existing 3 sides back to the transom. A lot of scary work, there.

From the pictures I think cutting a hole in the transom would be risky business. The whole structure seems to be all tied in together. Might not be good strength & re-sale wise? If you get a chance take a look at the well arrangement on a Coronado 25. Pretty good design & done by the factory. Yours looks a whole lot different.

Paul T

christian.hess 05-11-2014 10:14 PM

Re: How Low Can We Go? (hp)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by juggleandhope (Post 1828650)
Thanks for the replies.

Right now I'm thinking that for this season I'll just keep the one I've got and pull it out of the well when it will be several days before I use it again, just lay it on its side (2 strokes don't mind that, right?).

Probably before that I'll try out some smaller hp engines just to see it, from someone in the club.

If I do decide to do the surgery it won't be as simple as Baldwin's - I'd be cutting into the area between the transom and the existing well. So I'd have to put up small bulkheads to keep a following sea from flooding into the actual boat, under the cockpit. Probably would have to cut off the back wall of the well and then extend the existing 3 sides back to the transom. A lot of scary work, there.

Several photos;

http://s30.postimg.org/6cj6zn441/IMG...510_120006.jpg
http://s3.postimg.org/etg6imhoj/IMG_20140510_121011.jpg
http://s12.postimg.org/9ptywe1jh/IMG...510_142839.jpg


gosh why did they do that man?

on my old marieholm folkboat I had a nice 5hp merc on a nice little bracket that was spring loaded...came out of the water in an upright position and was way down for use normally

that hole is hideous...and definitely messes with your water flow heeled over

man


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