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  #41  
Old 10-03-2007
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I understand that the prop is key.. however with the lowest pitch prop sold for this engine it performs below a 4hp 2 stroke. This engine in this configuration is marketed for sailboats according to the manufacture. It just doesn't seem right to me that with the lowest pitch prop made for this engine that the engine cant get to within 20% of its nominal rpm. Something is wrong there and it doesn't look like it is a problem singular to my engine at this point but rather generic to the model.

I have spent months working with the manufacture. I have changed props. I have taken the engine to their authorized service center. I have conducted many empirical tests with equipment I purchased at my cost to test and monitor thrust and rpm. Nowhere else have I even found anyone including the manufacture that has tested or published data like this. As a matter of fact the manufacture was really interested in seeing my results until they started showing that the engine wasn't producing the expected thrust.. Then it became.. you boat is to heavy, sorry.

Boat is not to heavy for a 4hp engine but it is for a 6...

For the people that are happy with this engine. I'm happy for you. Your expectations are much lower than mine and that is fine. My expectations are to get what I paid for... a more powerful motor. It not being as powerful as it is supposed to be does not take away that it has great fuel economy, and that it cranks and runs reliably. If you are happy with how it performs in your application then good for you. You are happy with a weak 6hp engine that does the job you need/want.
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  #42  
Old 10-03-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newengsailor View Post
Audeojude why don't you put your 6hp for sale? The 6hp will work for lots of smaller boats such as mine and your engine is practically brand new so you should get top dollar. Then buy an 8hp or larger. I think the 8hp is roughly about $300 more and you would be much happier with it.

I am still in the middle of trying to return the engine. if that doesn't succeed I might think about doing this.

Money is the main problem. My budget is small and since i got this engine has be come smaller. The economy is not looking great right now and being self employed im feeling it as my clients tighten their belts.

I will take a significant hit selling this engine used. and then have to come up with the money to go to the 9.8. I would not get the 8 hp as it doesn't come in the 25inch shaft.. I really really like the 25inch shaft.
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  #43  
Old 10-03-2007
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You really need to get the 25" shaft version of any motor you get, otherwise cavitation is going to be a big problem.
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  #44  
Old 10-03-2007
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I'm pushing a 9 ft AB RIB, and I'm not happy with the engine either!
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  #45  
Old 10-03-2007
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Audeojude,

Are you sure you are using the lowest pitch Tohatsu prop? The part number is 399B645121M. I have an idea you are using the 369W645120M 6 pitch which is not the correct one for your application. The 399B645121M is designed for use where people are using an engine that is too small for their application.
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  #46  
Old 10-03-2007
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<i>The 399B645121M is designed for use where people are using an engine that is too small for their application.</i><p>They designed a prop for people that are using an engine that is too small for their application. Interesting.

Last edited by messenger; 10-03-2007 at 06:16 PM.
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  #47  
Old 10-03-2007
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Tohatsu was aware that a percentage of the population would not understand that a four-stroke engine might lack the ability TO DEVELOP IT"S HORSEPOWER in the auxilary engine role in some applications. Audeojude is the perfect example of that percentage. It's not his fault or anyone's else's for that matter. In fact, if anyone is to blame it is all of the outboard manufacturers, as a collective group, for not having the fortitude to tell people that four-stroke engines were a step backward in relevant performance. IE a 4-stroke< 2-stroke by nature of the engine design. A four-stroke can only meet a 2-stokes power output as the RPM increases. In Audeojudes case the engine cannot achieve it's operating RPM as the load that he is pushing is too great for the propeller type that he is using. Since it can't reach it's operating RPM it can't generate the propeller revolutions necessary for the boat to achieve hull speed. The general rule, at a minimum(MINIMUM), for an auxilary engine on a displacement hull is 1 hp for every 500 lbs of loaded boat. He's almost certainly over that by x lbs. There has to be a straw that backs the camels back and its his bad luck that his application had one too many straws. It's not an engine design error or any nefarious intention to underrate an outboards power output. In addition, as someone pointed out earlier, there is a difference in the ability to develop power between a one-cylinder and two-cylinder engine. One cylinder engines (all brands) have a hard time keeping up with a two cylinder (all brands) of the same HP.

It's also not the fault of the dealer that sold him the engine. A little personal responsibility for ones own decision is good for the soul. Dealers can't take back an engine once it has been used and resell it as a new engine. The situation sucks, but thats life.

Last edited by TohatsuGuru; 10-03-2007 at 08:08 PM.
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  #48  
Old 10-03-2007
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TohatsuGuru:
Thank you for the clear written nutshell description of the problem, and I agree with you. However, I disagree that the dealer is not at fault. A dealer should know a correct application and a WRONG application before he sells a piece of equipment. If the dealer didn't know the application, then shame on him for not asking. It's part of his responsibility serving his customers. He should be able to tell the customer what to expect in performace of a product. If I were that dealer and wanted to keep my good reputation, this problem would have been corrected long ago.
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  #49  
Old 10-03-2007
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It is not a dealers responsibility to determine what the correct model engine is for a boat unless they are asked. Even then it has to be the buyers responsibility to make the final decision. Everyday I get asked, "Is this the engine I need". My answer is almost always the same. PROBABLY. The exception is when a person clearly has no idea what they need and want to go far outside the range of normal. Sometimes we steer them to a bigger engine, sometimes to a smaller one. Think of it this way. You go in to buy a pickup. It's a 1/2 ton model. The salesman could ask you what you are going to be hauling in it. I would tell him it will be used to haul the bodies of nosey auto salesmen, but that's just me. But, let's say you are a goodnatured person with no bodies so you tell him a 1000 lbs of dung. He could say that that's a lot of dung. He might say that your fine up to a 1000 lbs of dung or he might say that if you are going to be hauling aroung that much dung you need to go to a 3/4 ton truck. The point is that as long as you are telling him that you are hauling lbs of dung under what the truck is rated for he is not able to tell you not to buy it. I don't know exactly what the circumstances were regarding audeojudes purchase, maybe he will enlighten us with how much input, if any(I suspect there was none), that the dealer was asked to provide. Even if the dealer was asked their opinion would be based only on the average vessel of that size under an average application. Keep in mind that the engine IS working correctly. It's just not meeting one individual's expectation. I sell an awful lot of these things and no one ever complains about them like this. Occasionaly someone who has never had a one-cylinder four-stroke will think there is something wrong with it because they are loud and vibrate....That is until they hear and see a one-cylinder two-stroke It's all about perceptions and expectations.

Last edited by TohatsuGuru; 10-03-2007 at 08:09 PM.
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  #50  
Old 10-03-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TohatsuGuru View Post
Audeojude,

Are you sure you are using the lowest pitch Tohatsu prop? The part number is 399B645121M. I have an idea you are using the 369W645120M 6 pitch which is not the correct one for your application. The 399B645121M is designed for use where people are using an engine that is too small for their application.
I will have to lookup the part number. It is the prop that tohatsu support sent me to use. This after working for a month and a half on other things with the engine. They chose it knowing the engine and my boat so I would assume it is the correct one. However that part number doesnt show up on tohatsu's website. The only reference I see on the internet to it is on your website, internetoutboards.com. I can't seem to locate the shipping manifest for when that was delivered so don't know what they sent me. All the prop has on it is the number 6 stamped on a blade.

For everyone else... I will say this.. when I first started to realize I was having problems with this engine I called the dealer I purchased it from and mistakenly called the people at internetoutboards.com (where tohatsuguru is from) instead of outboardsales.com and the tech support guy I got was extremely friendly and helpful even after we figured out it wasn't them that I purchased the engine from. Unlike outboardsales.com who dropped the ball and didn't even call me back even though i had purchased it from them. I will also give tohatsu usa a decent nod. Vic there really did work with me to try and resolve the issue over a 2 month period of time. The 6 pitch prop that I got from them was sent to me free of charge to try and help resolve the issue. After it didn't resolve it though, they pretty much just went to the engine is to small for your boat and left it at that.

Last edited by audeojude; 10-03-2007 at 09:07 PM.
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