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  #11  
Old 07-18-2013
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Re: Removing Hot Water Heater

I believe the expansion tank in the locker is needed when the water heater is operated with AC and cold engine. In that case the hot potable water in the tank would transfer heat to the engine coolant in the water heater. This would cause pressure by expansion. This pressure is relieved into the locker expansion tank. There is no way to relief that pressure to the engine expansion tank in the engine compartment through the engine heat exchanger cap because that is temperature operated and that area remains cold.
Does this make sense?
Wolfgang

Correction:
The heat exchanger cap is a pressure control valve and pressure operated. That means that it would relief pressure generated by the water heater.

Last edited by YankeePSC34; 07-18-2013 at 03:21 PM. Reason: Additional information
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Re: Removing Hot Water Heater

Quote:
Originally Posted by YankeePSC34 View Post
I believe the expansion tank in the locker is needed when the water heater is operated with AC and cold engine. In that case the hot potable water in the tank would transfer heat to the engine coolant in the water heater. This would cause pressure by expansion. This pressure is relieved into the locker expansion tank. There is no way to relief that pressure to the engine expansion tank in the engine compartment through the engine heat exchanger cap because that is temperature operated and that area remains cold.
Does this make sense?
Wolfgang
That makes a lot of sense. First thing I have heard that explains its existence. I will call then per to be sure, but sounds like it all can go.
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Re: Removing Hot Water Heater

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Originally Posted by Norstar View Post
Brian,

Removing the HWH should be no big deal if you choose to do so.Your engine fresh water coolant is probably plumbed through it as a heat exchanger to give you hot water when operating engine and not connected to dockside power. Other than gaining some extra storage space I have to ask, why remove it? Hot water is good, right? As far as the black aluminum coolant expansion tank in the port locker, I believe it is integral to the cooling system on the engine but not totally sure what the purpose is. My guess is it adds volume to the amount of coolant in the system. Also a place to add more coolant as needed. if you open the coolant cap on the engine mounted unit, coolant will spill out.

John S
PSC 34 # 201
Norstar
In five years we have never used it. Plus we have no pressure water, so probably cannot anyway. It is a lot of storage, makes the locker very hot, which is bad for the batteries and charger, and is unneccssay weight.
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Old 07-18-2013
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Re: Removing Hot Water Heater

Hi there!

I'm sorry I made it sound like such a big job on our website. It was a a bit of a PIA because we had to figure everything out for the first time. Actually, it's pretty straight forward.

The write up for the removal is on our website here: http://www.swancruise.com/Water%20Heater.html

Dave Mancini
PSC34 #305 "Swan"
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Last edited by DaveMancini; 07-18-2013 at 05:23 PM. Reason: Want to simplify
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Old 07-19-2013
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Re: Removing Hot Water Heater

I've always had a concern about the long run of hot antifreeze between the 3JH2e and the water heater (PSC 32PH). I have considered installing stop cocks at the out/return at the engine so that water is heated only when required, but was concerned about the function of the cockpit locker expansion tank. So it is OK to eliminate this tank from normal engine operation?
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Re: Removing Hot Water Heater

Yes. If the heat exchanger in the water heater or any part of the plumbing between the engine and the water heater is located above the engine’s expansion tank cap, then a remote expansion tank must be plumbed into the system. If you remove the heater and all it's plumbing, the remote expansion tank is no longer necessary.

I would check with a Yanmar mechanic before installing stop cocks. I don't know whether the in/out ports are part of the flow pattern of the engine cooling system or not. It sounds like a good idea, though. If you look at my write up, I didn't have plugs to fit the ports and didn't feel like spending the money to buy them at the price of Yanmar parts, so I just doubled the hose back.

Dave
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Last edited by DaveMancini; 07-19-2013 at 11:23 AM. Reason: Addition and correction
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Re: Removing Hot Water Heater

I was also thinking about installing shut off cocks close to the pump to eliminate loss of engine coolant in case the water heater starts leaking. As Dave M says, the surge tank is needed only for the water heater and only because the water heater is installed above the engine. I have an Atwood EHM 6 and the installation instructions read: 'Locate water AT or BELOW engine level'. It also says: 'A leak in the heat exchanger or its connecting line could cause loss of coolant and subsequent engine failure. We recommend installer provide a means for bypassing the engine coolant heat exchanger located on water heater.' The wording is a bit odd but I do believe the meaning is that the water heater should be isolated from the engine coolant if not in use. Under WARNING SCALDING INJURY the manual says: 'Engine coolant circulating through the heat exchanger for more than two hours will create excessively hot water." I have always asked myself why should I boil six gallons of water when I run my engine. Long story short: I will remove the water heater with the expansion tank as soon I need the space.
Wolfgang
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Re: Removing Hot Water Heater

I removed the hot water tank, a retrofit tank I'm sure, not a factory original, from my PS34. I found it pretty straightforward. The worst part was working in the cramped space (My tank was placed aft of the engine, just fore of the rudder post.

I drained the engine coolant first, and also drained the water from the tank. Removed the tank. Removed the coolant hoses going to the tank, removed the shorepower wire and routed it to put in an extra shorepower outlet in the port cockpit locker. Put plugs in the coolant pump housing in the two holes from which I removed the fittings for the two coolant hoses that went to the heater. Removed the wood/fiberglassed shelf that had been built as a base for the hot water heater. Painted where the shelf had been, and painted the entire engine compartment at the same time.

Something did go wrong for me. I over-tightened the plugs for the coolant pump housing and broke the cast housing. So then I had to order a new housing and install that, which meant I got a new coolant pump, which I needed anyway since the seal was leaking. The new housing (for my Yanmar engine) came with the plugs already installed.

Brian Stipak
PS34, 1987, #67, S/V Ubiquity
S/V Ubiquity, Pacific Seacraft 34 Sailboat

Last edited by stipakb; 07-19-2013 at 12:20 PM.
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Re: Removing Hot Water Heater

[QUOTE=DaveMancini;1061719] I didn't have plugs to fit the ports and didn't feel like spending the money to buy them at the price of Yanmar parts, so I just doubled the hose back.

Dave,
I like the KISS of your approach. Practically it circulates coolant from the pressure side of the pump the suction side. That was the case before too with the heat exchanger in place. However, now the line has much less pressure resistance and more coolant is circulated and subsequently not used in the engine cooling circuit. Since you do not report any temperature change/increase with your engine it seems to be fine. By plugging the ports at the pump and removing the hose, or just by plugging the hose, all coolant passing the pump would be used for engine cooling. Just a thought in case your engine starts overheating.
Wolfgang
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Re: Removing Hot Water Heater

Thanks Wolfgang.

We've had no issues since we removed the heater six years ago. After reading your post and Brian's (Hi Brian!). I think I'll start looking for a couple of plugs in my leisure.

Dave
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