Considering PSC for family of 4 - Page 5 - SailNet Community
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post #41 of 66 Old 08-15-2013
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Re: Considering PSC for family of 4

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Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
As the tech editor for C400, with hundreds of our boats made, we have not had one (not one single, never, ever) C400 turtle.
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That's the rubber hits the road you have a commercial interest in another company.

Dave, Raindog, Ocean Girl and I are simply a PSC 34 owners who love our boats.

There is some magical reason these boats consistently get five star reviews from their owners.

(Lovely family pictures!!!!)
No. I have zero, zilch, notta commercial interest. Just like I have no commercial interest in Sailnet. I do this ALL FOR FREE, and am happy to beat up Catalina if (and when) they do something stupid.

The Tech editors are a non-paying job run by what is hopefully the technical expert for those boats. We are ALL owners, nothing else. They have never sent me one red cent (though I did get a hat once, but it didn't fit right).

I also will NOT give my boat 5 stars. It has issues. All boats do. I have favorite boats out there and they do not start with C. Unfortunately, they end with $,$$$,$$$. Thus, I am sailing around on a production boat. I am happy to support their strengths, and quick to point out their failures.

Short of the stuff I have been paid in articles for the old Lats and Atts, I have NO commercial interest in anything marine. In fact, I have no commercial interest in anything anymore.

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post #42 of 66 Old 08-15-2013
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Re: Considering PSC for family of 4

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I'll defend CD a bit on the issue of speed. His main point, I think, is that a PSC is relatively slow...especially when you look at PHRF. This is obviously true.

As I said earlier, I raced off-shore on a PSC 37 Cutter. It was definitely "slow" in relation to virtually all the production boats in that race. But it could still win if raced well.

So, he's basically right. Just not absolutely right. Brent Swain's boats are WAY slower than PSCs.
Yes, exactly.

They are more slow than:

Catalina, Beneteau, Hunter, X, J, Tartan, Valiant, Sabre, etc, etc.

They should be able to outrun an Alden, A Cape DOry, a Cheoy Lee, any Colombia, an Ericson, a Westerly, or anything that begins with Brent and ends with Swain.

However, none of that is anything I would use to esprit their great speed virtues of a PSC. Not something to be proud of. It is not what they were built for... as I keep saying!

THey are a Damned good boat! Anyone who doesn't think they are a AWESOME boat is ignorant of them. But they are a purpose built boat, and I believe, in my opinion which other PSC owners don't agree with, sailing around on the Chessy with two teenage boys aint one of them!

Brian
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post #43 of 66 Old 08-15-2013
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Re: Considering PSC for family of 4

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
I'll defend CD a bit on the issue of speed. His main point, I think, is that a PSC is relatively slow...especially when you look at PHRF. This is obviously true.

As I said earlier, I raced off-shore on a PSC 37 Cutter. It was definitely "slow" in relation to virtually all the production boats in that race. But it could still win if raced well.

So, he's basically right. Just not absolutely right. Brent Swain's boats are WAY slower than PSCs.
Ah. The voice of reason speaks!

The problem I have is that you know what he says is hyperbole, and I know it is hyperbole, but people boat shopping and coming here for information on boats may not know it is hyperbole. When they read someone with experience saying a boat will be bobbing in the bay if the winds are < 25 knots, they may very well believe it. We all (including CD) are well aware a PSC will be moving just fine in 7 knots of wind, but I do not assume everyone else knows that. That is the only reason I will not let it go.

I have no ability or desire to convince CD or anything, and I do not think even he believes his words at face value. But I know exactly how I used this forum when I was first boat shopping, and I think of the me back then.



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post #44 of 66 Old 08-15-2013
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Re: Considering PSC for family of 4

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Great pics!! Cruising kids are the most impressive kids I've ever met. While i was stuck up in the Rio Dulce, I ran a make shift day care for the cruisers at Mario's Marina, so parents of little ones could get some "me" time. I was always amazed by kids creativity, resilience and curiosity. The games they taught me. One of my kids, a little 4year old aboard an old wooden boat, came up to me while I was refinishing some oars. We started talking about how good they were, he liked my rope work for the oar locks, how light they were, bass wood right? I thought I was talking to a ten year old!
Anyways, we will disagree on speed. But totally agree that your sacrifice was worth it, if those smiling faces and sparkling eyes have any indication.
Cheers
Good story. You will find that most cruising kids talk at an adult level. They are generally mature beyond their times. It is both a blessing and a curse. It is a blessing in dealing with them as adults, but they have troubles sometimes in communicating with land based kids.

BTW, I am not trying to upset you or your husband, both of whom I have respect for. I like you guys. We just have a different opinion. THat is all it is... opinions.

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post #45 of 66 Old 08-15-2013
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Re: Considering PSC for family of 4

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Ah. The voice of reason speaks!

The problem I have is that you know what he says is hyperbole, and I know it is hyperbole, but people boat shopping and coming here for information on boats may not know it is hyperbole. When they read someone with experience saying a boat will be bobbing in the bay if the winds are < 25 knots, they may very well believe it. We all (including CD) are well aware a PSC will be moving just fine in 7 knots of wind, but I do not assume everyone else knows that. That is the only reason I will not let it go.

I have no ability or desire to convince CD or anything, and I do not think even he believes his words at face value. But I know exactly how I used this forum when I was first boat shopping, and I think of the me back then.
Sounds reasonable to me.

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Re: Considering PSC for family of 4

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They should be able to outrun an Alden, A Cape DOry, a Cheoy Lee, any Colombia, an Ericson, a Westerly, or anything that begins with Brent and ends with Swain.
Brentalina?

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post #47 of 66 Old 08-15-2013
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Re: Considering PSC for family of 4

It's all good, I've seen hunter threads, this is kindergarten


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post #48 of 66 Old 08-15-2013
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Re: Considering PSC for family of 4

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Ah. The voice of reason speaks!

The problem I have is that you know what he says is hyperbole, and I know it is hyperbole, but people boat shopping and coming here for information on boats may not know it is hyperbole. When they read someone with experience saying a boat will be bobbing in the bay if the winds are < 25 knots, they may very well believe it. We all (including CD) are well aware a PSC will be moving just fine in 7 knots of wind, but I do not assume everyone else knows that. That is the only reason I will not let it go.

I have no ability or desire to convince CD or anything, and I do not think even he believes his words at face value. But I know exactly how I used this forum when I was first boat shopping, and I think of the me back then.
At 25 knots, most modern production boats, and certainly the other higher end boats like Sabre, X, J, etc... will be over hull speed and likely into double digits. At 25 knots, my boat is hauling!

BTW, I do not have a fast boat. I have what I consider a performance boat, but many others will call a slug. You should see me and Paulo disagree about this ad nauseum! A Sabre will leave me behind, as will a J. Speed is relative because the guys with Sea Rays that read this are laughing their butts off right now as we are arguiing over a few knots and they idle faster than we sail (now that was hyperbole).

So we will leave it at this: Your boat has a PHRF (a PHRF being the cumulative average of how that boat has performed by all who have raced it) of 195. The 37 is 186. There are few boats on that list with that PHRF. The list is here:

PHRF New England - Handicapping - Base Handicaps

There are others.

And regarding your opinion about people using their PSC 34 to day sail... we won't disagree on that. Pretty much all boat owners use their boats as such... even those who buy long distance passage makers like yours. It is a sad truth. Even the OP is going to use it as such. So why buy a long distance passage making boat, not use it for its intended purpose, when you can have a much faster and better performing boat, with more comfort, for the same money??

Why get a PSC to daysail it in the Chessy with two teenagers??

I just don't get it.

Brian

PS Like I told your wife, I am not trying to tick you off. I like you guys. We just have very different opinions on performance and speed. And as I said, I sailed down here with a 37. She sure didn't break any speed records. She is a very well built boat, but she ain't no speed demon.

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Re: Considering PSC for family of 4

We are joking about Brent swain right? I'm placing all my faith in his composting head instructions just avoid his boats right? Not his poo disposal expertise?


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post #50 of 66 Old 08-15-2013
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Re: Considering PSC for family of 4

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We are joking about Brent swain right? I'm placing all my faith in his composting head instructions just avoid his boats right? Not his poo disposal expertise?
I knew he was an expert in dispensing it. I didn't know he disposed of it. Interesting.
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