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Go Back   SailNet Community > Boat Builders Row > Pacific Seacraft
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  #21  
Old 01-18-2007
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Bert,

I don't know the ins and outs of your warranty issue, but some of your characterizations about Saga and PSC are not exactly spot on. Saga is not defunct; it moved to California and is now manufactured along with the PSC line under the same roof and headed up by the same CEO as Saga was. In the U.S. we usually characterize that as a merge, and the implications are usually not negative.

The reasons for that move have been spelled out in a number of articles and news releases in magazines and on the web, mostly having to do with the strength of the Canadian dollar against the U.S. dollar, which may have something to do with the delays you mentioned and the comments by Rick more than 2 years ago.

However, this is now. I am having a boat built by PSC. If you go to Fullerton, as I have, twice, you will see a number of Sagas, as well as PS's being built at any given time. I've found the factory very busy, working two shifts and reportedly turning out record numbers of boats. I have spoken with Robin twice this week. If anyone is experiencing delays in response, I suggest it is due to a group of very busy people trying to turn out boats as fast a possible while keeping unnecessary costs to a minimum. I also suggest that your individual experience does not necessarily extrapolate into presages of demise nor equate to legitimate reasons for anyone to either enter into or avoid doing business with PSC.

Dave
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  #22  
Old 01-19-2007
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Dave...I have a lot of respect for the build quality and design of both the PS line and the Saga line. That said...the post purchase warranty issue Sparrow had seems worrisome assuming we have the full story from him. A merger does not allow one company to void legitimate warranty claims. Perhaps someone from PSC would like to respond here as to their side of things. But assuming Sparrow is correct, it might be a good plan for you to get a surveyor to go over your boat thoroughly before you make your final payment so that you have some leverage in the process for your boat.
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  #23  
Old 01-19-2007
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Dave, Camaraderie,

Thank you for your thoughtful responses. It is clear that PSC is short of cash, but the need to “keep unnecessary costs to a minimum” should not be so squarely shouldered by the customer. This does not seem to me to be a good long term business plan. While it is true that I’m not privy to the specifics of the “merger,” the end result is that they are still building Sagas and thus need to decide whether they are going to honor their obligations incurred in Canada. At this point we have seen very little interest on their part in doing so. Both Saga and PSC have many loyal and devoted customers--we wish nothing more than to join their ranks. We would welcome PSC’s participation in this dialogue.

Bert, Amy, Nora & Rosie
Otherwise happy in the Med
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  #24  
Old 01-19-2007
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Camaraderie: Thank you for your input. Your advice is sound and I will consider it carefully.

Bert: I cannot disagree with your last post. I hope you will be able to resolve your warranty issue completely. Enjoy your cruise in the Med.

Dave
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  #25  
Old 01-19-2007
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Dave/Sparrow...thanks.
All....I have close friends who sold their home and business to embark on their blue water cruising dream on a brand new 42' beauty. They did not do a survey on taking posession and subsequently found some huge issues with the boat during the first 90 days of ownership. To keep the story brief...lawyers got involved...surveyors and yards got involved, they had to move off the boat for THREE years at their expense while the company dug in its heels over the more than $250K of defects repairs required. Finally after arbitration, the company took the boat back but my friends were out their costs and their sailing dream was over. (Sorry folks but i cannot name the boat or the company due to legal issues in the settlement).
My B.I.L. also purchased a 54' Hylas new a few years back and after shakedown had many 10's of thousands in required fixes. Hylas was good about this AND he had escrowed a certain amount so was covered.
The point is that many purchasers of new boats think of them as new cars and expect them to work nearly perfectly and get the same results in warranty if they find something wrong. Just not true all too often so the small expense of a surveyor can often pay off big time even on a new boat.
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  #26  
Old 01-19-2007
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Moderator, can you list what the major defect(s) were? Your post is quite interesting.
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  #27  
Old 01-20-2007
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"A merger does not allow one company to void legitimate warranty claims"
Once upon a time, maybe. These days, you never really know what is going on unless you can read the corporate papers. I've known one corporation to buy out the assets of another--and somehow be allowed to "buy" only the name and assets, without the liabilities of the warranty claims, etc.
What looks like a merger to you and me, may not be that simple in the details.
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  #28  
Old 01-20-2007
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HS...a MERGER does entail support of both assets and liabilities. However...when a company is in BANKRUPTCY...than another may come along and purchase only the assets with the approval of the court. That was not the case with Saga/PS.

Rick...there were a number of costly issues but the big one was the poor bonding of cross members to the hull causing the floors to drop and the loss of support for the rigidity of the hull making it un-seaworthy. Fixable only by tearing the whole hull apart which accounts for the large estimated expense.
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  #29  
Old 01-20-2007
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As far as I know, and according to Allan Poole, Saga did not file for court protection in Canada. I am uncertain about the exact status of their legal obligations, but I am very certain about their moral ones.
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Sparrow409,
How is your Saga overall? How long have you owned her now? Have you had other issues besides the windows needing rebeding? You received 1/2 the cost of the window repairs, correct? Did Saga have an explanation as to why they were paying half?

Reading DaveMancinis posts and first hand reports it appears that PSC is building and delivering vessels as well as his own yet to be completed PS. It appears that many things are going well for the sailing sport at PSC, right? Camaraderie reported an absolute horror story of a total loss requring years of litigation to resolve. Wouldn't that be the pits? Thanks be to all that is right in this world that it wasn't you or I.

BTW, Camaraderie, thanks for your reply to my question, I suspected that it had to be something like what you posted. "caveat emptor"
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