Even with a good survey, there are many unseen horrors - Page 2 - SailNet Community
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post #11 of 35 Old 04-19-2017
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Re: Even with a good survey, there are many unseen horrors

Congratulations on the new boat. I go into every new boat and every new season with the expectation I'm going to find something major. I wonder what it will be this time. Then it arrives. Then I know and I can move on. I haven't solved this season's yet.

If your version of major is a stripped ground bolt, I'm very jealous.


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post #12 of 35 Old 04-19-2017 Thread Starter
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Re: Even with a good survey, there are many unseen horrors

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Congratulations on the new boat. I go into every new boat and every new season with the expectation I'm going to find something major. I wonder what it will be this time. Then it arrives. Then I know and I can move on. I haven't solved this season's yet.

If your version of major is a stripped ground bolt, I'm very jealous.
Thanks. I'm actually going into my second full season, but still very much a neophyte with regard to all the systems on the boat.

I agree, even though it could have caused a major problem, the repair is relatively cheap and easy. -- I do wonder how in the world this was actually done. I don't think it was done by the PO (what owner would have made a connection this bad?). The yard that she was at before I bought her is well respected. But nonetheless, whoever did the previous repair must have known it was stripped. --
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post #13 of 35 Old 04-19-2017
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Re: Even with a good survey, there are many unseen horrors

If you're going to move the ground connection to a new spot, the best place is one of the starter bolts if you can do it. Puts the voltage right where you need it with less resistance. You're not relying on the starter's connection to the engine to transfer the power. That can gunk up and add resistance. Usually the worst that can happen with a bad ground is the engine won't start, but in an emergency I guess we could call that major.
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post #14 of 35 Old 04-19-2017
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Re: Even with a good survey, there are many unseen horrors

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.....I agree, even though it could have caused a major problem....
Other than your starter may not have turned over to start your engine, when you needed it, what major problem do you envision this could have caused?


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post #15 of 35 Old 04-20-2017 Thread Starter
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Re: Even with a good survey, there are many unseen horrors

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Other than your starter may not have turned over to start your engine, when you needed it, what major problem do you envision this could have caused?
In my book, predominantly as a single-hander, that would be enough (although I do have a portable battery and the anchor is at the ready if need be). However, one of the other things I'm thinking would be a problem is that I'd be without running lights.

I'm not that familiar with diesels yet, once started, will a diesel run without a battery?
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post #16 of 35 Old 04-20-2017
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Re: Even with a good survey, there are many unseen horrors

Actually your house battery's ground should be seperate,I think,and I assume your running light are run off them.. And yes older ,none computer run,mechanical diesels will run once started..actually if it's a battery problem any engine with a alternator/generator will run once started,also your idea of a boost battery may have worked if you had put ground straight to the engine and not tried to boost the battery as that would have been fruitless with a bad ground!......a good way to check for a bad ground ,is run a booster cable from starter battery to block creating a new ground.......Ralph

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post #17 of 35 Old 04-20-2017
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Re: Even with a good survey, there are many unseen horrors

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I'm not that familiar with diesels yet, once started, will a diesel run without a battery?
Yes, the battery just provides the spark for ignition. Once started, the diesel runs without juice from the battery.

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post #18 of 35 Old 04-20-2017
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Re: Even with a good survey, there are many unseen horrors

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Yes, the battery just provides the spark for ignition. Once started, the diesel runs without juice from the battery.
No spark on a diesel, the fuel is ignited by compression only. The battery just turns the electric starter motor.
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post #19 of 35 Old 04-20-2017
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Re: Even with a good survey, there are many unseen horrors

elliowb,

My battery selector switch on Irish Eyes is mounted directly on the plywood below the companionway, not on a separate piece of plywood screwed over a large opening. Perhaps someone has modified your original installation. All the wiring on the back of my switch are one ring fitting to the wire. Nothing is doubled up.


My engine ground connection is on the aft port corner of my engine (Yanmar 3HM35F) near the tachometer sender. Both the battery negative and bonding grounds are connected to a bolt in the engine block adjacent to the starter motor mount. (I previously had a second battery negative cable going to the alternator frame, but the new alternator I installed this year does not have a suitable bolt. So, until I figure out how to work around that, I have left the cable off.)


I have had a bad engine ground. When Mac Boring rebuilt my engine they repainted it. When the engine was reinstalled in the boat, the paint partially insulated the metal under the bolt and the underside of the bolt head. Until I found the paint, I had problems with the starter motor, the oil pressure gauge, the engine temperature gauge, and the alternator regulator. I never had the opportunity to test the oil pressure and engine temperature switches, but I'd bet they had problems as well. Scraping away the paint fixed all the problems.

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post #20 of 35 Old 04-22-2017 Thread Starter
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Re: Even with a good survey, there are many unseen horrors

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elliowb,

My battery selector switch on Irish Eyes is mounted directly on the plywood below the companionway, not on a separate piece of plywood screwed over a large opening. Perhaps someone has modified your original installation. All the wiring on the back of my switch are one ring fitting to the wire. Nothing is doubled up.


My engine ground connection is on the aft port corner of my engine (Yanmar 3HM35F) near the tachometer sender. Both the battery negative and bonding grounds are connected to a bolt in the engine block adjacent to the starter motor mount. (I previously had a second battery negative cable going to the alternator frame, but the new alternator I installed this year does not have a suitable bolt. So, until I figure out how to work around that, I have left the cable off.)


I have had a bad engine ground. When Mac Boring rebuilt my engine they repainted it. When the engine was reinstalled in the boat, the paint partially insulated the metal under the bolt and the underside of the bolt head. Until I found the paint, I had problems with the starter motor, the oil pressure gauge, the engine temperature gauge, and the alternator regulator. I never had the opportunity to test the oil pressure and engine temperature switches, but I'd bet they had problems as well. Scraping away the paint fixed all the problems.

Bill Murdoch
1988 PSC 34
Irish Eyes
Thanks for the great info and the photos Bill. The original battery switch is the same Perko switch that you have on Irish Eyes. I made the cutout so that I could more easily access the cables and I'm going to install a BlueSeas on/off/emergency switch. It is very possible that someone has altered the wiring prior to my purchase (especially since the ground on the engine has clearly been altered).

The second photo of the aft port side of your engine is helpful. The 3/8th hole that is in the support that runs athwartships, a bit inboard from the engine mount, just aft of the location that your ground is attached is where my ground was attached. Since the threads were very thoroughly stripped, I drilled a new hole in the same support, just inboard of the original hole and threaded it. Tomorrow I'm going to install a bus bar on the port wall of the engine compartment. I think that should solve that part of the problem that I encountered.

After removing the cable from my start battery, I discovered even more reason for why I'm happy that I am replacing some important elements in the DC system. The better part of the lug has been eaten away, due to the stripped ground bolt.

-- Bill Elliott

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