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  #31  
Old 10-17-2009
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In the same boat...sorta

SV ARGO, Ryan,
Hope I am not hijacking your thread, if I am breaching ettiquette I appologise. The thing is I have been going through exactly the same thing you have been going through for the past several weeks , with jsut about exactly the same reasoning for type of heater and same problem when I thought I had made myu ultimate decission, ie: to go with the Dickenson desiel bulkhead heater, but then wound up at the same place regarding placement and lack of being able to find a place to get the needed 48" of bulkhead stovepipe above the stove. I am living aboard my Freedom 33 Cat Ketch in Greenport, NY. My first choice for fuel is desiel as I have ample tankage and also for the avaiability consideration, Now I think maybe webasto type but really can't afford the cost and also like the ambiance of a visable flame . The propane Dickenson might work but here is my problem....small propane reserves, my propane locker only accomodates 2-6lb alum bottles, and since PO installed instaneous propane Hot water heater, I already go through propane too quickly. So I too am in a quandry as to what to do. Right now a single electric is keeping me toasty warm(luckily boat is welll insulated) marina owner does not like it and wants me to not use it(not a electric cost issue, just has some thing against electric heaters on boats ) I am eagerly waiting tohere what you decide to do. Anyone who has anyu suggestions for me I would appreciate hearing from. SO FAR all I can come up that works for heat is webasto type but would prefer to find a way around it. thanks, Rick
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  #32  
Old 10-18-2009
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Ryan
Our Crealock 37 has a propane catalytic heated installed by a previous owner. It is a "Platinum Cat" brand and fits nicely on the port bulkhead. I can't compare its performance against the other types discussed, but I can say we have been very satisfied with it. It has a forced air exhaust vent with no special flue requirements (ours vents out of the cabin side). The "Platinum Cat" people have a website that gives all the details of the heater. I tried to attach a picture of ours installed in our Crealock, but for some reason still can't attach pictures to my posts. If interested, PM me and I will be happy to forward a picture via e-mail.

Dave Dias
Crealock 37 #151
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  #33  
Old 10-19-2009
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Refleks Clearance

Quote:
Originally Posted by BirdBrain333 View Post
The person to contact at Hamilton Marine is Daryl (800) 639-2715. Unfortunately he is not there until Monday.

I found one reference online to the Refleks flue height in a blog/discussion. For what it is worth they said that the flue length should be 100 CM or about 40 inches. Mounting the stove over the port bunk with room for my toes leaves only 28" before the ceiling so that would need an additional 12" outside. Hmmmm.

Jay, PSC # 171, Kenlanu in the cold.

PS that blog discussion was at
Equipment: Comforts of the creature – choice and installation of diesel heater « Hot Shot Kaskelot

JP
Jay,

That sounds like the best solution thus far, if not the best. 12" is pretty tall up forward; the stays'l sheets run right through there and seem to like to foul anything they can get their hands on. (We two hand the boat almost exclusively, so when carrying full sail, the cutter often gets a mind of it's own before the jib is trimmed enough to deal with it.) We also have a flat panel TV mounted on the port side, though it wouldn't be that difficult to move it over.

As I think I mentioned in a reply to John Pollard, I might actually try to get the starboard forward bulkhead mounted table, remove the galley mounted hinged table and then mount a stove just forward of the galley sink. I could install a bulkhead mount against the galley half-bhd, or, if I can figure a way to get access to the fuel tank, mount a larger and more efficient floor heater, which would really open up the options in terms of models and sizes. We don't have the galley overhead teak storage unit, so I could get a nice brass cylindrical day tank to span from outboard to the stanchion. It's starting to get complicated, and expensive, but we want to get something onboard that we can use for exensive cruising in colder climates.

Ryan
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  #34  
Old 10-19-2009
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Alternative to Diesel Heater: Diesel Stove

Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightsailor View Post
SV ARGO, Ryan,
Hope I am not hijacking your thread, if I am breaching ettiquette I appologise. I am eagerly waiting tohere what you decide to do. Anyone who has anyu suggestions for me I would appreciate hearing from. SO FAR all I can come up that works for heat is webasto type but would prefer to find a way around it. thanks, Rick
No worries, all thoughts welcome here as it is becoming apparent installing heat is not a trivial issue. We are now considering a Webasto/Wallas/Espar type more than we were, but still don't like the power consumption.

One thought I had is to install a diesel stove. Dickinson, Sigmar and others have them on the market, they are supposed to cook well and heat well. I haven't done a lot of research on them; they may get the cabin too hot during warmer weather. And, I'm not sure if they are sold as gimballed units due to the flue stack, or if they do what helluva expansion coupling you need for the flue fitting to the stove.

If anyone's got any experience with diesel stove/oven/heaters, I'd love to hear about it.

Ryan
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  #35  
Old 10-19-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVArgo View Post

If anyone's got any experience with diesel stove/oven/heaters, I'd love to hear about it.

Ryan

I think we have some Alaska sailors that are using units similar to what you are considering. Hopefully you'll hear from them.

I think I would really miss the convenience and odor-free operation of the propane stove, especially in hot weather.

For what it's worth, we had a kerosene-fueled Taylor -030 Cooker (stove/oven) on our Dana 24. It was a beautiful and expensive piece of hardware.

It required pre-heating the burner elements, which in the long-term I found to be a hassle.

Also, if you or someone you sail with has a sensitive nose, there may be a detectable odor that seems to permeate the entire boat (especially cushions) - think "engine compartment". I don't know if the odor was a by-product of combustion, or from the inevitable exposure of liquid kero to the ambient air during the pre-heating/lighting stages. I actually could barely detect it, but my wife and one of my kids found it unpleasant.

Our unit was not vented with a stack/chimney.
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Pacific Seacraft Crealock 31 #62

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  #36  
Old 10-19-2009
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Refleks Bulkhead stove mockup

I made a cardboard mock-up of the Refleks 66MF to be mounted on the port bulkhead (see attached picture). When I did so I found I could lower the stove so that I now have 32" to the cabin top while still being able to lie comfortably in the bunk (but with my feet beside, not under the stove!).

Daryl at Hamilton Marine said the Refleks works well with one meter of stove pipe and that he has seen installations as short as half a meter. He is contacting Refleks to talk with them and I will report back when I hear anything.

I hear you about the staysail sheets. This is a true puzzle!

Jay PSC 37 # 171, Kenlanu

P.S. sorry that picture turned sideways. Grrrrr.
Attached Thumbnails
Cabin Heater Type and Arrangement-refleks-66mw_mockup.jpg  

Last edited by BirdBrain333; 10-19-2009 at 08:35 PM. Reason: Picture was turned sideways
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  #37  
Old 10-22-2009
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Jay,

Excellent mock-up! I had that on my agenda, but have been admittedly lazy in scaring up some cardboard.

Where would you run the flue in that configuration? I thought, that in that location, you could run it up the hole for the dorade, which would reduce some of your make-up air flow. The problem, if it is a problem, if you cut an additional hole for the flue, is its proximity to the dorade. I'm not sure if there would be a problem with the dorade sucking in the flue exhaust and the problems with carbon monoxide, soot, smell, etc.

We are starting to lean closer to the floor mount against the galley, but we realised yesterday that this would mean we couldn't use the cushion insert to turn the starboard settee into a double. It's going to be a trade off no matter which way we look at it!

Ryan
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  #38  
Old 10-22-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVArgo View Post
The problem, if it is a problem, if you cut an additional hole for the flue, is its proximity to the dorade. I'm not sure if there would be a problem with the dorade sucking in the flue exhaust and the problems with carbon monoxide, soot, smell, etc.
It is a problem, in my opinion. Our chimney exits just forward of the starboard dorade -- the worst possible place. So the very first step before starting the heater is always to close the dorade vent.

I would have really liked to run the chimney up through the dorade vent opening, but it just didn't work on alignment (too far aft). The scariest part of the installation is cutting a 3+" hole in your deck.
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  #39  
Old 10-22-2009
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Flue??

I was thinking of running the flue just aft of the dorade but would still be concerned about swirling winds/eddies. Alternatively I'm thinking of using the hole for the dorade and building a Plexiglass companionway drop board with a big louver in it for air intake. Light AND air is nice.

I agree with John about cutting that hole -- I must have dithered over that for an hour or more before literally taking the plunge on our old Vanguard!

Jay

P.S. still no reply from Hamilton Marine/Refleks with final word on flue height. I'll follow up early next week. JP
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Old 10-22-2009
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Dear Ryan,
I saw a photo of a 37 with that type of table. They had swapped around the aft facing portion of the seating so it was up against the galley sink and facing forward. With the heater installed there you would loose that seat also. How would people get in and out? Is the table wide enough to be truly usable by people on the port settee? What happens when someone has to go to the head?

I would definitely mock that up to see what it does and does not do. Time for a refrigerator box!

Good luck with the puzzle, Jay

PSC 37, Kenlanu

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVArgo View Post
Jay,


We are starting to lean closer to the floor mount against the galley, but we realised yesterday that this would mean we couldn't use the cushion insert to turn the starboard settee into a double. It's going to be a trade off no matter which way we look at it!

Ryan
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