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Go Back   SailNet Community > Boat Builders Row > Pacific Seacraft
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Old 05-05-2012
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How old is old

I am looking into getting back to some serious cruising and I have settled on the PSC 34 or 37 as my first choices. Like most, shelling out for a new boat of this ilk is out of the question. I have been looking at the used market. I know PSC hold their value better than almost anything which accounts for the prices on the used market. This is fine. Sign of a good product.

My real question is there seems to be a precipitous drop in price for boats from the late 90s and older. Is there anything to be leery of in PSC of this age? I know all old boats have their potential issues that compound with age. I can speak from experience from mine and my familiy's Bristol 27 hull #1, a Cape Dory 22 from the earliy 80s and a beautiful Bermuda 40 from the 60s. So anything to look for in PCS of a certain age?
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Old 05-05-2012
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I just found a reply on the Aluminum toe tail leak? thread that mentioned that toe rail problems seem to appear after about 20 yrs or so. Is this the kind a particular issue that one needs to look for in older PSC?
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Old 05-05-2012
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Re: How old is old

Like many builders of quality products, PS has improved their product over the years. Some examples: Somewhere in the late 80's or early 90's, PSC switched to a more blister-resistant resin on the hulls. They also switched from aluminum fuel tanks to fiberglass tanks to deal with fuel tank corrosion experienced by earlier boats. There were also many small things like interior finish and electrical wiring practices that improved in later models. Other owners will probably be able to cite other examples. All said, however, the basic design has been little changed over the years.

An older boat will require normal refurbishment and updating, but this is not unique to PSC.

Our 37 is a 1983 model and has been a source of enjoyment and pride for the full 9 years that we have owner her, though I admit I don't mind (and even enjoy) the extra work that goes with owning an older boat.

Dave
Crealock 37 #151
"Eowyn"
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Old 06-13-2012
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Re: How old is old

Our boat is a 1986 with those lovely oval bronze portlights. Fortunately we have had NO blisters but in buying an older boat we had to replace quite a bit of stuff including standing rigging, fuel tank, & toilet. The gel coat is quite faded but still comes back with buffing and waxing -- for a while. But structurally our boat is fabulously sound with not a single leak over some pretty rough miles this past year.

Happy boat-shopping!

Jay

SV Kenlanu, Buck's Harbor, ME
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Old 06-13-2012
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Re: How old is old

Jo Beth is a 1984 34, hull #16. We've had few of the bigger problems associated with the older PS's, but have had our share of minor ones - but hey, she's 28 years old! Mostly, our headaches have come from trying to 'undo' what the previous owners did. But like others have said, she's structurally sound and a wonderful boat. Plus, she's what we wanted - a Crealock 34, cutter rigged, with a tiller. And to top it off, we have a beautiful one of a kind interior!
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1984 Pacific Seacraft Crealock 34, Hull #16

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"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
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Old 06-26-2012
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Re: How old is old

Quote:
Originally Posted by tscloud View Post
My real question is there seems to be a precipitous drop in price for boats from the late 90s and older.
My impression is this is true for all boats because most banks will not finance a boat over 20 years old. Also many insurance companies seem to have a different policy for boats over 20 years old. This creates an artificial price break at 20 years.
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Old 06-26-2012
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I never thought of that and I feel as though I should have b/c it makes so much sense.

So taking that fact into consideration, I sounds as though it might even be prudent to look more seriously at the 20+ yrs old boats. They are probably not in much worse shape that something maybe even 10 yrs old but should be artificially cheaper. Thanks raindog. You have given me some good food for thought.
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Old 06-27-2012
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Re: How old is old

Toe Rail issues - unaware of any toe rail issues, perhaps someone can elaborate.

I am not sure when Pacific Seacraft began to offer and aluminum cap rail option. Most of the 34 and 37 will have teak cap rails. Perhaps some if not maintained, allowed to weather and scabbed with brushes have been sanded down to the point where they need to be replaced. The ones on Crazy Fish (built in 1989 are in great shape).

As mentioned in another post beginning sometime prior to 1989 Pacific Seacraft switch to a vinylester resin which eliminated any issues with blisters. Crazy Fish has never shown any evidence of blistering.

On any fiberglass boat after a number of years (15 - 20 ??) the gelcoat begins to run thin. To return the boat to its original beauty requires either a re-gelcoating, an LP paint job (i.e. Awlgrip) or some other painting. Labor intensive to prepare the hull and/or in the case of re-gelcoating to sand down the gelcoat to the desired finish.

Otherwise I think it all depends on the degree of maintenance performed and the history of upgrades - are the sails, lines, rigging, instrumentation 20+ years old or have they been upgraded. How may hours on the engine and transmission ?

Early Crealocks 37 were built prior to Pacific Seacraft obtaining the molds, a company named Cruising Consultants built ~15 boats and I believe there were 1 or 2 additional boats built. The interiors on these boats are significantly different then Pacific Seacraft - some were delivered as bare hulls and owner finished.

Pacific Seacraft had the molds for the 34 built so all of the 34s are by them.

Otherwise the boats were solidly built and purchasing a used one could be a good value particularly if the re-sale value holds up.

Regards
Marc Hall
Crazy Fish, Crealock 37, Hull 207
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Old 06-27-2012
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Re: How old is old

Part of the problem is that as a boat reaches her 20 birthday a lot of the major systems are getting due for an overhaul, or a complete top down inspection. Since a lot of owners don't do this regularly the new buyer really should, but often doesn't inspect this stuff. This is why insurance gets harder to get ( unless you can show you have done the work).

Just an example of some major systems and their expected reaplacement interval...

1) Most rigging companies suggest dye testing after 8 years, with full x-ray inspections at 15. This means everything from the turnbuckles to the wire needs to be removed and inspected professionally. Often it is cheaper to replace it.

2) Electrical systems even tinned wire eventually fails. I don't have recommendations, but somewhere in the 20 year age range base load stuff starts to need replacement. Things like shore power cables, engine wiring, ect will all be soon due for replacement if they haven't been done already.

3) chainplates should be removed and dye/x-ray tested at 20 years. Replacement is often suggested even if they are otherwise fine. Due to the cost of pulling everything out. Good practice is to do this while doing the rigging work from 1.

4) engines don't last forever. And somewhere around 29 years is when major parts start to fail due to age, if not hours. Things like heat exchangers, pumps, gaskets, ect...

5) Electronics, and nav instruments tend to fail around this same timeline.

6) Keel bolts also can fail, and after 20 years of a hard life, it probably isn't a terrible idea to have them inspected too. Just remember it is much easier to do so while the rig is out... So all at once you are looking at new rigging, chainplates, and kneel bolts...

Of course in any particular boat some of these things will be pristine, and other things will fail, but 20 years is a long time to ask mechanical things to keep working without problems. And often by the time you price pulling the old out, repairing it, and reinstalling it, the additional cost for new isn't that much more (it can be less). Generally this all happens around the 20-25 year mark.

Certainly there are boats and systems that will work long past this timeline, and I don't mean to say everything will be gone at this point. But 20-25 years is when all these things start to come up for inspection at a minimum. And this adds to the cost of ownership, unless the previous owner has already undertaken some of the repairs.
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Old 06-28-2012
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Re: How old is old

TS:
See Kretschmer's Sailing Magazine Used Boat Notebook review on the PSC37:

Pacific Seacraft 37

Happy Hunting!
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