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downwind sail for PSC31

7K views 30 replies 7 participants last post by  Summit_Elan 
#1 ·
Hi all:

I have a PSC 31 (#36) Hinei'ni (nee Clue), and I saw on the PSC owners org website a photo of Journey,a PSC 31 in NC or SC flying an asymetrical spinnaker. The owners association has not responded to my request to join, so I can't post there. I am considering adding an asym to my sail quiver and wanted to hear any pros and cons. I have two furling headsails (yankee and staysail) but I'm not sure if that's relevant or not. I have the bowsprit D-ring and spinnaker blocks at the transom in place. i got a quote from an annapolis sailmaker for $2,800 for the sail, 64 sq. meters, and an ATN sock...I would only need a quick release and about two feet of line or webbing to clear the bow pulpit.

I actually saw another boat (some kind of 352 H/HR?? recently with three furling headsails..the foremost was an asym of sorts, then a yankee, then a staysail. I think that aside from the ability to stay aft and unfurl, this is an expensive, overdone, and less attractive option.


Has anybody installed a third headsail or am I right and this is too much? How much downwind improvement will I see with an asym over the high cut yankee?



Elan
 
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#2 ·
I am on a 34, but pretty close.

With the ATN sock I can set and douse my Asym from the cockpit by myself.

The pros are I get to sail on days I used to stay at the dock or motor. When the wind is 3-8 I can still have a nice relaxing reach. Downwind in 5-10 same story.

The only cons are cost and storage. It is not a small sail and you need to find a place to put it when not in use.
 
#4 ·
Do you run all lines aft, including the halyard? If so, you must sail with the sail hanging down to the deck. Or do you run forward to rig for the down wind and then pack it away for upwind work?

Thanks!
I run forward to rig it. The halyard is tied off at the mast. Running to the cockpit are the sheets and a continuos line attached to a block at deck level that pulls the sock up and down. Once it is set up, I can raise the sock to set the sail from the cockpit using the continuos line. I can also lower the sock to douse the sail from the cockpit using the same line. It is basically identical to a roller furler set up in terms of how the control lines work. It has two advantages over a roller furler set up in my opinion:

1) It is way cheaper since I came this way when I bought the boat :)
2) It is easier to set up and take down. Than a roller furler.

#1 is of course my driving motivation for this setup. Note I have never tried to douse the sail in 20 knot winds. If I ever have the misfortune I will report back on how it went. My strategy would probably be to head downwind, raise the main (if needed), and then douse in the shadow of the main.
 
#5 ·
The asym will probably give you the most use for a downwind sail and should probably be where you should start.

The ATN sock is well designed, works well and makes deployment and take down of the sail much simpler.

On Crazy Fish, the asym is raised from a spinnaker halyard that is not run back to the cockpit. If I am by myself, the boat goes on autopilot and go forward to set up the sail and deploy it and then head back to the cockpit to trim it.

Although all of my sails have been purchased new, I see a lot of asymmetric spinnakers in the inventory of the used sails vendors such as Minneys in Newport Beach, CA. I recently set up the boat to fly a symmetric spinnaker and purchased a used one from Minneys. The sail did not have a great shape although was in excellent condition and I return it to Minneys and swapped it out for another one which works better.

A new trend for asymmetric spinnakers is the use of a top down furler, I believe Karver was the first but the Profurl has come up with an interesting design. More expensive then an ATN sock but could be set up at the dock and when not in use left up in the rolled position ready to be deployed. The Profurl furler components could also used for Code 0 type sail.

Marc Hall
Crazy Fish, Crealock 37 Hull 207
 
#8 ·
The spinnaker in the photos is a Quantum V3 all purpose asymmetric. It really is a nice addition on those lighter wind days when I need to go downwind. That sail in particular is good for between 90-150 AWA or so. It will not sail any lower though. I've even carried it a little higher in some really light wind.
The downside to the sail is how much room it takes up storing it in the boat. The ATN sock I would guess doubles the volume of the stowed sail. Mine came with a duffel style bag and it takes a big portion of the space in the quarter berth.

Adam
PSC 31 Journey
 
#9 ·
Hi Adam, thanks for chiming in. Thats a great picture and inspiring too ( to spend money, haha!) Right now all my sails are on the quarter berth so there's really no room, but come better weather, I wouldn't have any sails below except an asym since I'd pull the 130 furling genoa from the boat and have the Yankee and staysail on the furlers. So maybe I could live with that trade off if the down wind performance is so good.
 
#14 ·
I think we've ditched the idea of a furling asymmetric, though that was in my original post. Someone told me that to add a third furler up front, you have to move the other two furling units back in addition to extending the bowsprit, which I don't even have at the moment.
 
#15 ·
I think we've ditched the idea of a furling asymmetric, though that was in my original post. Someone told me that to add a third furler up front, you have to move the other two furling units back in addition to extending the bowsprit, which I don't even have at the moment.
Someone is misguiding you...

It is true that to use a asymmetric furler you need some room between the tack point for the asymmetric and the headstay (in front of the foremost stay/ furler). So if your headstay is terminated at the end of the boat (bowsprit/stem) you need add or extend the bowsprit.

But moving the existing ones - why?
 
#21 ·
I have a question for those of you who are long-term cruisers,

Is the space the asymmetric takes when not deployed, worth taking it on a long cruise?

I'm going to spend 8 months next year in the eastern Caribbean. Right now, my asymmetric takes perhaps 1/5 of my quarter berth. I'm not sure it'll be worth the space.

Your thoughts?

Bob
34' PSC Alaria
Christmas Cove, Maine
 
#24 ·
I have a question for those of you who are long-term cruisers,

Is the space the asymmetric takes when not deployed, worth taking it on a long cruise?

I'm going to spend 8 months next year in the eastern Caribbean. Right now, my asymmetric takes perhaps 1/5 of my quarter berth. I'm not sure it'll be worth the space.

Your thoughts?

Bob
34' PSC Alaria
Christmas Cove, Maine
I could be wrong but that choice might actually be between the asymmetric and 2 or 3 jerry jugs of diesel - similar space but the asymmetric will be lighter. Also is the asymmetric the only nylon sail you have, perhaps you have a drifter which you might use at times in place of the asymmetric.

I spent 2 years cruising Pacific Mexico and found the asymmetric very useful.
Next trip I will be cutting down on a lot of the stuff I took with me - boat came home with a lot of the canned food it went south with, a 5 gallon paint can full of stainless fittings, lbs of spares, 4 scuba tanks and a compressor (which will become 2 scuba tanks and a compressor) and 6 jerry jugs of fuel. The fuel jugs were frequently empty but still took up space.

So much of that is going to be cut back. In its place will likely be 2 or 3 or 4 nylon sails - asymmetric, some sort of code 0 type sail, a drifter and maybe a symmetric spinnaker. The first 3 will all be flow from one of the newer roller furriers - Karver, facnor, collegio, profurl or ???. If I had to pick only 1 it would likely be the asymmetric (or maybe the drifter). Sailing conditions in Pacific Mexico frequently consist of light winds.

I am also looking for an alternatives to burning gasoline in my outboard, but I am an avid free diver/scuba diver so there will be keeping my current 15HP 2 stroke and 11.5 foot Achilles inflatable.

So its about making choices and what choices work for you.

I have not had any experience in the eastern Caribbean, but had friends on a Crealock 34, who started in San Diego, spent a few years making the trip down to Panama and then a few years in the eastern Caribbean before heading to Florida and ultimately moving off the boat. After their first season in the eastern Caribbean they had a main built the size of a double reefed main and left the original main off the boat. They were tired of always putting the reefs. After that season the old main went back on the boat as they got used to the conditions.

Marc Hall
Crazy Fish, Crealock 37, Hull 207
San Diego
 
#23 ·
"This is basically a spinnaker halyard problem. You will have it with any spinnaker arrangement unless you are going to use the same halyard for your genoa and spinnaker.

The normal solution is to install a Spinnaker Bail at the masthead. If you have the LeFiell mast you can get one here:

Masthead Assemblies"


I have a spinnaker halyard...is it safe to assume I have the necessary hardware aloft, then, to fly another headsail? Seems so....

Elan
 
#26 ·
Marc,
Thanks for your thoughts about the value of the asymmetric relative to the space it takes. However, the last part of your comments may be more to the reality I'll be facing.

Light wind is less often a problem during the winter months when I'll be down there. Your friends were reefing all the time. 15- 20 knts is the norm. Much of my anticipated sailing will be beam reach. Also since I can easily lash fuel carboys on the deck but must devote valuable interior space to the asymmetric. So, I"m leaning against bringing it. However, I'll continue to think about his.

Bob
 
#27 ·
Marc, I checked today and I do have a separate block for the spinnaker halyard. The next question will be whether to haul the asym up from the base of the mast (hinei'ni does not have a winch on the mast) or run the halyard aft to the cockpit. Either way, I have to run forward to douse, right?
 
#30 ·
So with the asym in an ATN sock there really is not requirement for a winch for the spin halyard. Easily hauled up by hand.

No matter what you do with running or not running lines back to the cockpit is the sail in an ATN sock you will have to go forward do deal with dousing the sail. If I am singlehandend the boat is usually being driven by either the autopilot or with the windvane so going forward is no issue. If you are going cruising without an autopilot you might want to reconsider. If you are going cruising singlehanded without an autopilot you want to reconsider.

On my next trip I am probably going to carry 2 5 gallon jerry jugs. Fill with diesel for long trips offshore. Use to refuel the boat the when in spots where I don't want to or can't put the boat next to the fuel dock and otherwise keep empty or possibly full of gasoline for the inflatable outboard.

Also looking into sailbags that can be clipped to the lifelines and left up on deck for most of th time while underway.

All of my nylon sails will likely be flown off of a roller furling unit rather then an ATN sock. Sail could then be deployed and retrieved while from the cockpit. Dropping the furled sail would be done from the foredeck as would swapping out the nylon sails.

Enjoy

Marc Hall
Crazy Fish, Crealock 37, Hull 207.
Crazy Fish - Maintaining, Upgrading and Sailing a Crealock 37
www.enjoythedive.net
Welcome | Global Underwater Explorers
 
#28 ·
Just weighing in: My PSC came with a beautiful assym spinaker. I have gradually learned to use it in various conditions and absolutely love it! There are other options for downwind/light wind sailing but with a sock, the AS is such a nice solution--and so much prettier than white sails. Yes, it is a fairly large bag stored down below but it is so light and compressible that it doesn't bother me a bit (it is wonderfully soft to sleep on up on the foredeck!). I remember I once left on a cruise and thought the AS was on board but it was not--I was very unhappy and vowed to never leave port without it again. (All that said, next chance I get I want to experiment with double headsails.;))
 
#31 ·
Okapi, thanks for the feedback. What point of sail are you on when you raise the sail, and then when you pull up the sock? Seems like it would be safest to point into the wind but is bearing off hard then with an unfilled headsail? Both Yankee and staysail furl on Hinei'ni so I can quickly head down if need be, but who wants to run forward to raise the sock at that point?

And yes Mark Hinei'ni has an autopilot so I can run forward.
 
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