P26 Genoa track and cars - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Boat Builders Row > Pearson
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 07-20-2014
bblument's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Syracuse area, NY
Posts: 208
Thanks: 41
Thanked 29 Times in 21 Posts
Rep Power: 2
bblument is on a distinguished road
P26 Genoa track and cars

Hi, folks..

Still working on renovating and sailing our '72 p26. The block on the starboard genoa car is toast, and I'm sure it's still the original equipment. The block appears to made from tin foil with a recycled white plastic sheave. The sheave disintegrated over the winter, somehow.

I can NOT find a way to get the car off the original 4' long 1" t-track; the large washer "stoppers" at the end of the tracks seem to be welded on. Is that the case? Is my only option to do what I really SHOULD do (rip out the current track, and install new 10' tracks on either side with new cars so as to get correct sail shape for every headsail, instead of just huge gennys), or is there another, more budget-minded but serviceable option (removing the trashed car and just replacing it for now).

The Garhauer equipment is withing our reach financially, but, dang it.. I want to go SAILING...NOW!!

Ideas?

Thanks.

Barry
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
"Without question, the greatest invention in the history of mankind is beer. Oh, I grant you that the wheel was also a fine invention, but the wheel does not go nearly as well with pizza." - Dave Barry
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 07-21-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: New Orleans Louisiana
Posts: 1,942
Thanks: 6
Thanked 43 Times in 41 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Stumble is on a distinguished road
Re: P26 Genoa track and cars

Can you post a picture of the track ends ( front and back) and the car. Most tracks are a standard size, so even if you need to replace the car there normally isn't a need to replace the track as well.
__________________
Greg Rubin
Attorney
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 07-21-2014
bblument's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Syracuse area, NY
Posts: 208
Thanks: 41
Thanked 29 Times in 21 Posts
Rep Power: 2
bblument is on a distinguished road
Re: P26 Genoa track and cars

Thanks for the reply, Greg. I'll snap some pics next time I get up to the boat and post them. In the meantime, I'll try and describe the ends a bit more clearly.

It's standard 1" track, and I think the car is made by Schaeffer... there's a stylized "S" monogram on it. The track is attached with the usual fasteners with wood-screw-shaped heads that fit flush with the track. At each end of the track, there's an additional thick fender washer added underneath the last screw head, (between the screw head and the track) to make the track too thick for the car, thereby acting as an end stop. That fender washer is ground to the exact shape of the track and conforms perfectly with the track ends. Although it looks like the washer is just held there by the screw, I couldn't pry it off the track once the screw was loosened. I used a fair amount of force; if it was held on with 4200 or some other typical bedding compound, it would have come loose. Plus, there's no visual sign of anything between the washer and the track, so that's why I guessed that it may have been fabricated there permanently, although there's no visible signs of a weld, either.

The car itself is a small screw-pin car with a small bail. The ruined block looks like the attached pic, although the pic isn't mine. If I could disassemble the swivel part of the block so I could remove it from the bail and buy a new one and attach it I'd be back in business, too, but there doesn't look to be a way to do so. Is there?

I know a pic of my actual equipment would help... I'll try and get one soon. I've got to go out of town for a few days tomorrow, and the boat's an hour and a half away in the wrong direction.

Thanks again for the reply,

Barry
Attached Thumbnails
P26 Genoa track and cars-schaefer-block.jpg  
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
"Without question, the greatest invention in the history of mankind is beer. Oh, I grant you that the wheel was also a fine invention, but the wheel does not go nearly as well with pizza." - Dave Barry

Last edited by bblument; 07-21-2014 at 08:39 AM. Reason: editing is FUN-da-mental... sigh
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 07-21-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: New Orleans Louisiana
Posts: 1,942
Thanks: 6
Thanked 43 Times in 41 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Stumble is on a distinguished road
Re: P26 Genoa track and cars

I sounds like some sort of hash up by a PO, or a weird installation. Track ends are supposed to be removable, and with a minimum of fuss, but obviously that doesn't sound like what you have.

My first thought is to just cut off the end, and find a track end that matches what you have. Or take the length of track in and see if they can remove the mess on the end without damaging the track underneath too much. A machinist with a steady hand and a grinder could probably do it, I would just make a mess.

Frankly I would have them do the same to both sides, and install adjustable cars, as long as you are doing this much work.


The quick and easy way to get back on the water is just to cut the block off the bail, and shackle another one on. It may be a little long, but moving the car forward will resolve that.
__________________
Greg Rubin
Attorney
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
The Following User Says Thank You to Stumble For This Useful Post:
bblument (07-21-2014)
  #5  
Old 07-21-2014
bblument's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Syracuse area, NY
Posts: 208
Thanks: 41
Thanked 29 Times in 21 Posts
Rep Power: 2
bblument is on a distinguished road
Re: P26 Genoa track and cars

Thanks again for the reply, Greg. I was on the phone w/ Guido at Garhauer for a while this morning, and he was very helpful. He, too, confirmed that whatever I have is NOT the way it's supposed to be and was puzzled by the absence of any real removable end caps.

I'm going to bite the bullet and take your advice (and Guido's) and do it right. Dan Pfeifer's site details the problems with this short 4' track making it impossible to get the car far enough forward for correct shape on anything other than his 170%, and he ended up putting 14' lengths on his boat. For me (a still learning relative beginner), 8' tracks seem like a good compromise between better performance and budgetary constraints, and Guido recommended a pair of cars that's not expensive at all. Even their E-Z Glide line adjustable systems are pretty reasonably priced, but I'll save them for later once I have a better handle on how much I'd use them at my current stage of lack of expertise.

Soo... does that sound like a good plan to you? Does T track bend laterally enough to conform to the curvature of the boat lengthwise? The attached picture is of Dan's P26 w/ his installed 14' track. My current OEM 4' track stops about even w/ the companionway. Will the T track bend enough to make that curve?

Thanks again for your help.. much appreciated.

Barry
Attached Thumbnails
P26 Genoa track and cars-extended-14-track-p26.jpg  
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
"Without question, the greatest invention in the history of mankind is beer. Oh, I grant you that the wheel was also a fine invention, but the wheel does not go nearly as well with pizza." - Dave Barry

Last edited by bblument; 07-21-2014 at 11:54 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 07-21-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: New Orleans Louisiana
Posts: 1,942
Thanks: 6
Thanked 43 Times in 41 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Stumble is on a distinguished road
Re: P26 Genoa track and cars

No pictures popped up... But track can be bent. It cannot however be reliably bent outside a machine shop. It takes some pretty specialized (well specialized for a home shop not a machine shop) to bend and not over stress the track. Failing to do this right can cause kinks, and cracks in the aluminium. Personally I would have whoever is selling you the track do it if possible.

As for adjustable cars... I would do them now. Without them you will never get the jib to really set correctly, and there will always be a lot about trimming the jib that you will never learn. If you are ok just cruising around then it doesn't matter, but if you do want to learn how to work the boat then getting them now will save you money in the long run, and accelerate the learning curve. This is particularly true if you decide to go with one very long piece of track (which I would advise against actually).

As for track length. Not only does every sail need the track in a different place forward and aft, they also need them in a different place side to side. Instead of one massive piece, I would recommend a reasonable one in the right place for your two biggest jibs, and then a smaller track for the inside jibs. This also reduces the number of holes that need to be drilled into the deck, which is nice. For really big sails (spinnaker, or codes) it is often easier to just put fixed pad eyes in the deck.
__________________
Greg Rubin
Attorney
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 07-23-2014
bblument's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Syracuse area, NY
Posts: 208
Thanks: 41
Thanked 29 Times in 21 Posts
Rep Power: 2
bblument is on a distinguished road
Re: P26 Genoa track and cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
No pictures popped up... But track can be bent. It cannot however be reliably bent outside a machine shop. It takes some pretty specialized (well specialized for a home shop not a machine shop) to bend and not over stress the track. Failing to do this right can cause kinks, and cracks in the aluminium. Personally I would have whoever is selling you the track do it if possible.

As for adjustable cars... I would do them now. Without them you will never get the jib to really set correctly, and there will always be a lot about trimming the jib that you will never learn. If you are ok just cruising around then it doesn't matter, but if you do want to learn how to work the boat then getting them now will save you money in the long run, and accelerate the learning curve. This is particularly true if you decide to go with one very long piece of track (which I would advise against actually).

As for track length. Not only does every sail need the track in a different place forward and aft, they also need them in a different place side to side. Instead of one massive piece, I would recommend a reasonable one in the right place for your two biggest jibs, and then a smaller track for the inside jibs. This also reduces the number of holes that need to be drilled into the deck, which is nice. For really big sails (spinnaker, or codes) it is often easier to just put fixed pad eyes in the deck.
Greg,

Thanks again for following up, although I confess that your last response raises more questions for me. Can you help clear some of this up, please?

First, the cars I have, and any car I was planning on upgrading to, would be an adjustable car, would it not? Pull the pin (or unscrew the pin), move the car to a better position for a given sail and conditions, and set the car there... adjusted, right? My sailing vocabulary is probably not up to speed yet.. does "adjustable car" refer to a line-adjustable car specifically? If that's the case, and you're recommending that I go ahead and spring for that type of system now, I'd certainly consider it.

Second, your recommendation for two shorter lengths of track, one inside and one outside, rather than one long one makes sense, with some caveats. Dan Pfeifer outlined a plan for adding an inside track for the reasons you mentioned, i.e., to get proper angles for smaller jibs. On the Pearson 26, the track (currently outside only) is mounted atop the raised surface on the outer part of the deck (the gunwale?). At this part of the deck, there is no core.. only fiberglass. I've attached a diagram of this.. oh, and I fixed my error in the previous post and managed to get the pic of the extended track uploaded.. sorry about that. Anyway, adding a few more holes on the gunwale isn't a big deal and shouldn't add to any leaking issues. The inner track you suggested, however, would have to be installed where the deck has a balsa core. I know that can be done, but it scares me.. I'd rather just stay on the outside and avoid any possibility of eventual moisture penetration. I've already had to replace the mast support beam and compression posts and do a little rebuilding underneath the mast step.... I'd rather not get into that again elsewhere if at all possible. Also, it'd add a bit to the cost due to the additional pair of cars needed for the second pair of tracks. My pockets aren't real deep, but I tend to buy small quantities of high quality when possible rather than the other way around.

A third question raised by your post has to do with the fixed padeyes for the larger sails. There is a pair of fixed padeyes with permanently attached blocks (exactly the same type of blocks that are currently broken on the aforementioned car that started this whole thread) on the deck that a very experienced friend told me were for the spinnaker, but they are well forward of the fore-most part of my genoa track. Is that normal?

Sorry about all the questions.. .still learning! I appreciate your help and input very much. Hopefully, I'll get up to the boat on Friday and delve into this in depth and in person.

Best to you,

Barry
Attached Thumbnails
P26 Genoa track and cars-pearson-track-mount-detail.jpg  
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
"Without question, the greatest invention in the history of mankind is beer. Oh, I grant you that the wheel was also a fine invention, but the wheel does not go nearly as well with pizza." - Dave Barry

Last edited by bblument; 07-23-2014 at 12:14 AM. Reason: I type faster than I think... sigh...
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 07-24-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: New Orleans Louisiana
Posts: 1,942
Thanks: 6
Thanked 43 Times in 41 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Stumble is on a distinguished road
Re: P26 Genoa track and cars

Don't appologize for questions, it's the only way to learn. And forums help me get over the craving to go sailing every day. So to try and answer in order...

1) the screw down and pull pin type cars while movable are not really adjustable under load. My recomendation would be to go with line adjustable cars, and learn how to use them well. Both to power up the boat, and to depower when you need it. The upfront cost is certainly higher, but if you change your mind down the road then you are stuck with parts you don't need anymore.

2) learning to install deck hardware by removing the core is just a part of sailing. And it is much easier than trying to fix a bad core down the road. I would probably not install new track at this point unless you use an inside non-overlapping jib regularly. Just keep it in mind for when you do decide to add a much smaller jib in the future.

3) where the spinnaker blocks are is generally in the aft 25% of the boat! but it can vary. It has to do with lead angles to the clew of the spinnaker not with where it lands on the boat. However in this case they could also be turning blocks not the trim blocks. A picture would help, and I am not familure with your boat at all.

It is absolutely possible that the same track your jib is on carries an additional car and block set for the spinnaker.
__________________
Greg Rubin
Attorney
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 07-31-2014
bblument's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Syracuse area, NY
Posts: 208
Thanks: 41
Thanked 29 Times in 21 Posts
Rep Power: 2
bblument is on a distinguished road
Re: P26 Genoa track and cars

Greg,

I got up to the boat a few days ago and tackled the situation. Since I posted here and in the general "Gear and Maintenance" forum about the issue, I did a write up over in that forum. Here's a link to the post, which includes pics of the issues, in case you're interested.

Pearson 26 genoa track and cars

Thanks again for all your time and suggestions.. most appreciated.

Barry
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
"Without question, the greatest invention in the history of mankind is beer. Oh, I grant you that the wheel was also a fine invention, but the wheel does not go nearly as well with pizza." - Dave Barry
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Genoa Track cars and things Dave_E General Discussion (sailing related) 11 10-14-2013 07:36 AM
genoa cars and travellers rmeador Learning to Sail 6 07-27-2011 12:03 PM
Value of Towable Genoa Cars on PSC37??? Seacurves Pacific Seacraft 2 03-19-2011 06:08 PM
Replacing Genoa Track Cars. tager Gear & Maintenance 6 01-25-2009 08:50 AM
Harken Lead Cars on 1 Inch Track? mr_lucky Gear & Maintenance 2 10-16-2007 02:46 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:37 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.