Democrats versus Republicans

[chucklesR]

The federal government has no basis for providing health care services to anyone other than former employee’s for which it contracted to do so. It is a social experiment gone awry.

States, under Medicaid provide care for disadvantaged people that can not otherwise afford health care; states also have the ability to locally monitor and administrate such a system based on the both the perceived needs and ‘will’ of the population. People on the cusp of income that are not provided healthcare from their employers, sure offer them STATE provided Medicaid, but not a federal program. Doing that will ENSURE that employers having a hard time meeting the rising costs of coverage just drop it, and their employee’s into the system. Do you think they will raise the pay of the employee’s by the amount they were paying? Dream on. I’ve never been offered the difference and never taken employee provided healthcare.

Let’s look at it another way.

All the workers of WaWa, 7-11, McDonalds etc.. out there that are not provided health care – let’ s say Obama and Clinton mandate the employer provide coverage under the rule that if they provide for ONE employee they must provide for all. The 22 year old (non-minor) working behind the counter of RiteAid (a drug store chain on the east coast) for 20 hours a week at 9.50 a hour just got a freebie of 500.00 a month of coverage. The cost of employing him went from
190 a week in wages + 14.78 (employer SSN input) + local unemployment insurance plus admin overhead) – be nice and call it 800 a month, rounding DOWN
Now he costs 800+ 500 a month, 1300 bucks.
That single employee costs 2/3 more, so 1 in 3 of them are let go – or the prices go up by a third to offset. Unemployment soars, the 22 year old defaults on his car loan, drops out of college and becomes a pimple living on societies underside. That’ll help won’t it. Be cheerful though because he is at least ensured that we’ll treat his meth addiction and subsequent medical problems for as long as he can breathe.

That 1/3 is called inflation my friend. That’s money out of YOUR pocket for everything you do. There is no free lunch, someone has to pay for it, it might as well be YOU as ME.

Is ‘free’ health care still so attractive to you?

[sck5]

"you MUST agree the feds are incapable of managing anything"

sure, that is the rightwing mantra. But Medicare seems to work OK - FAR better than my own insurance company when I compare my parents' experience with it to mine. And medicare has FAR lower admin overhead than private insurance.

And you are right about the prescription drug benefit program. Just goes to show that Republicans are bad at designing what is (as someone noted above) a socialist program. Get the Democrats in and they will fix it because they wont be trying to steer profits to their corporate buddies.

[Sailormon6]

Originally Posted by sck5

Get the Democrats in and they will fix it because they wont be trying to steer profits to their corporate buddies.

Yeah, the Dems will just bundle up the profits, take them home and put them in the freezer.

[sck5]

chucky

What you described in your last post was mandated employer provided private health insurance. What I have been talking about is some version of "medicare for everyone". I completely agree that the employer based system has bad incentives built in and to try to somehow add on to it or use it as a basis for universal coverage is a bad idea.

That is why medicare is a better model. It has worked ok for decades. it doesnt do everything and if you want extra you can sign up for Part B. If you want more than that you can go get private Medigap policies. My parents have done all of that and it works well. The advantage is that everyone is covered at a basic level and nobody's employer has to be responsible for it.

One thing to remember - All of those currently uncovered people? We are all paying for them now because when they get sick they go to the emergency room and cant be denied treatment. The cost is then spread across everybody else and is a big reason why hospital prices (ever look at one of those itemized bills?) are so ridiculous. It would be far better and cheaper to care for them earlier and somewhere else since we are going to pay for it one way or the other.

[sck5]

"the Dems will just bundle up the profits, take them home and put them in the freezer."

I wish. But that congressman in Louisiana proved you cant get away with that. You have to be a republican and get one of those multimillion dollar golden parachutes after you run your company into the ground like our President did back when he couldnt find oil in Texas

[chucklesR]

Originally Posted by sck5

"you MUST agree the feds are incapable of managing anything"

sure, that is the rightwing mantra. But Medicare seems to work OK - FAR better than my own insurance company when I compare my parents' experience with it to mine. And medicare has FAR lower admin overhead than private insurance.

And you are right about the prescription drug benefit program. Just goes to show that Republicans are bad at designing what is (as someone noted above) a socialist program. Get the Democrats in and they will fix it because they wont be trying to steer profits to their corporate buddies.

Impervious was a good word.

That's not right wing, that's observation and is party independent. Neither Party can mange "anything more difficult than a nap" It takes politicians 4 million pages of legislation to wipe their collective ass and on the way they crap all over both the people and the nation.
The bureaucrats and day to day workers of the federal government are not aligned to any party. "Get the democrats in" won't fix diddly, and as to profits - look both ways before crossing that street. Both parties are in the pockets of and steer money and privileges to businesses at will and at LARGE. I will say at least the Rep's sort of admit it, sort of. The dem's hide it as a dirty shame, but a cursory glance at the funding shows it to be the same ol' thing on both sides.

[camaraderie]

Originally Posted by sck5

Dont forget there are some major offsets to the increased cost of universal health insurance

1 - you dont have to pay for private insurance for those things a medicare-like program would cover

2.- There are substantial savings in other things you pay for as well. For example, 25% of my local school district's budget goes to pay health insurance for the employees. If that were lifted from them then the property tax (by far the biggest tax on my house) would be a lot lower.

Ahh yes the "savings" by having government do it. Let's see...what else can the govenment supply more cheaply than private enterprise? Pentagon toilet seats? Bridges to nowhere? Medicare and Medicaid are such well run government programs...lets extend their efficiencies to the entire health care system!

[sck5]

Chucky

You said your own program was government run and "like medicare" and it works for you. So apparently there ARE some things the govt. can do OK.

Cam

"Medicare and Medicaid are such well run government programs...lets extend their efficiencies to the entire health care system!"

Yes. Lets do. They have very very low overhead compared to the private sector because they arent hiring armies of accountants with OUR MONEY with the sole aim of NOT PAYING OUR CLAIMS. Look at this:

Angry Bear: The US Health Care System: Administrative Costs

And before you dismiss it, check the various articles in links to - from respected sources in the medical profession among others

[RAGNAR]

zza

[cardiacpaul]

okey dokey...

Yes, I'm on the gubbmint dole. I paid for it, handsomely.
The nest egg is gone, poof like dust in the wind.

I have over 250k (out of over 700k) of medical bills that will NEVER be paid, yea, I'm a real slacker.

Officially I can't make over 11280.00 per year (940.00 per month) in outside income or else my SSDI goes away, and with it, the medical plan.

Go ahead, tell me I shoulda planned better, uh-huh, I had "the plan", almost 7 figures in various investments until the first "cardiac event"

It can happen to you too.

I DO have Medicare, I HAVE to pay for it, and I don't get a single bene from it other than it qualifies me for the secondary plan. I had to get an outside provider for drug and medical coverage. And.. get this, I make to much in SSDI to qualify for Medicaid. Don't qualify for low cost dope either.

Pay my own way? Damn, I'd love to. you have no idea.

After earning mid 6 figures annually for over 15 years of my professional life, my SSDI check is all of... sit down, watch out, this is going to make me RICH,... 1660.00 gross, out of that, take out my 100 per month for medicare that I don't get, and another 100 a month for the "optional plan" and I'm choppin' high cotton.

If I didn't have the dope plan, I'd be paying a little more that 1400 a month in pills to keep my happy ass vertical. Yes, thats with the walmart 4.00 generics.
WITH "the plan" I pay almost 4000.00 a year. (the gap, you know, that "gap" is a bitch and a half)

Medicare doesn't pay much to Dr's. Neither does the insurance. The pacemaker and install was a little over 160,000.00 Insurance paid the "agreed amount" of 75,000.00 (same as the medicare schedule)

IF I make it another 5 years, I still won't have taken a dime that I or my employer haven't paid into SS.

Yes, there are abuses to "the system", huge abuses.
If we were to trim the waste and the abuses I think SS would be solvent.

But to lump all of us neer-do wells that need coverage into a pot doesn't sit very well with me.

A medical emergency WILL wipe you out. Trust me, I've lived it.

Suggestion? find a 'catastrophe' plan. Find a Disability plan. Buy them.