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  #1601 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2008
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I feel ya PB, that's why I've never voted.

Third party is coming, I just hope in my life time. Polarization is good on sunglasses, not in politics.
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  #1602 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2008
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I would run

If I could be elected Dictator for 30 days..thats the only way to reduce or fix government...can them all and start over...
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  #1603 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2008
sailaway21 sailaway21 is offline
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Chuck,
I'm glad you turned out ok although I'm still unclear on why you bought the pontoon boat. I'll just have to chalk that up to the fact that you can only take the boy out of WVa, not the WVa out of the boy. (g) I spent a good part of my youth in a single parent home as well and while I feel I came out ok I am painfully aware of the effect it had on some of my siblings, in one case, irreversible effects.

There is no other single indicator as strongly linked to poverty as the single parent household. I doubt that you're advocating poverty as a precursor to educational achievement.

The quality time versus quantity of time argument in child-rearing has been effectively debunked, I'm surprised you raise it. First off, there needs to be quantity of time for quality to even be an issue. Single parents working long hours to just support their children does not facilitate that parent having ample time with each child on matters other than basic nutrition and hygiene. And what more recent studies have shown, backed by ample parental experience, is that the quality time had with children tends to be very much based upon their needs of the moment. Quality time is not something that can be scheduled, a fact discovered by many parents who swallowed the quality/quantity argument of the 60's. The child tends to dictate when the quality moment will occur. In single parent households those moments are likely to occur during day-care with strangers, while the parent is absent, or when the parent is home but either too busy or too tired to take advantage of it.

I'll not bother with your notions on spermatozoa and so forth as I feel they're frivolous.

You cite many social ills that you feel that children of single parent households have overcome and the only two parent household you cite is one where the biological father is absent. None of these items are anything more than exceptions or excuses and do not serve to address the fundamental point; what is the best parental situation for the raising of children? We know what can be sometimes overcome, we know what on average does not work-single parenting, so how hard should it be to say what is most desirable and productive.

We know empirically that the two biological parent household is the most effective child-rearing atmosphere. We even know that having one of those parents in the home makes for a better child-rearing atmosphere. We also know that children of single parents are not only less successful in school and socially, they are also more likely to become single parents themselves. We even know that children from divorced family's are much more likely to end up divorced themselves. So people can rant and rave all they want about biology and the efficacy of condom use, and nothing will change for the better in terms of out of wedlock birthes and the harm caused by them. Morality serves to keep biology in check; it's what makes us human and not mere animals. And marriage is what harnesses the biological imperative and converts it into the nurturing two parent home. Why would society adopt a sliding standard that results in self-replicating failure when the optimum is known?
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  #1604 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2008
sailaway21 sailaway21 is offline
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Polirization is the only way politics are successful. Compromise ishow youget three-legged horses. The distilled polarized ideas. contrasted with the alternative, create clear choices for the type of government and society that we live in. Politics is merely the working out of one clear vision over another. Bipartisanship generally results in outcomes similar to anything designed by committee.
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Old 03-03-2008
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sailaway

I wouldnt argue with anything you said about how two parents are the best way to raise kids. I am curious though as to what you would do to reverse the apparent trend away from that in our society - There have been many causes cited, and changing notions of morality are no doubt part of it, but so is the fact that women are far more able to be financially independent than they used to be. But it isnt obvious what we would do to make things more the way you would like to see - It doesnt seem that forcing people who dont want to be married to stay together is necessarily better for kids. I doubt you could even make that happen anyway. So, I wonder, given the desirability of what you say, how would you actually get there?

Another thought - I have heard (though I dont know for a fact) that marriage is much less the rule in Scandinavia than it is even here or than it used to be there. But there isnt the strong correlation with poverty either - Many middle and upper class people have kids and arent married because they never wanted to do it in the first place. Perhaps their strong social programs help in this regard? I dont know, I am just posing a question.
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Old 03-03-2008
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chuck said

"You associated me with the republicans and apparently have no sense of humor - all in one post."

I may not have a sense of humor but that post was for sailormon - not you. He said something about Lieberman so I was agreeing that Dems had cast him out and said why. As for Jeffords, bless him for standing up for what he believed in.

And an independent party? I too believe there will be one at some point. Actually it might happen as a complete reinvention of one of the two main parties or it could happen as a result of a split of both of them as they abandon their respective fringes. The second possibility would be very interesting I think - But it sure isnt going to happen this time around. It would be likely to happen next time IF the Dems get in and dont do anything with their opportunity to do something new and useful and if that is seen as their fault and not obstructionism by the other side - i.e. if they turn out to be spineless wimps even when they have the power, then a lot of us are going to be very disgusted with them.

But that is the dim distant future in political time. I will worry about that some other time.
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  #1607 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2008
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Quote:
I wouldnt argue with anything you said about how two parents are the best way to raise kids. I am curious though as to what you would do to reverse the apparent trend away from that in our society
I don't think it's the government's job to be in the kid raising business. Having said that, I know a single gal who was pregnant and had a steady relationship with the father of the child who was gainfully employed. They held off on marriage until after the baby was born because of some sort of public assistance that helped her pay for the new baby. Ticks me off that the government system works like that.
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  #1608 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2008
sailaway21 sailaway21 is offline
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I'd absolutely agree with erps that the governemnt should not be in the child-rearing business. By the same token, the government should not be in the family destruction business either and to the degree that they make it easy to enter and leave marriage they are.
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  #1609 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erps View Post
I don't think it's the government's job to be in the kid raising business. Having said that, I know a single gal who was pregnant and had a steady relationship with the father of the child who was gainfully employed. They held off on marriage until after the baby was born because of some sort of public assistance that helped her pay for the new baby. Ticks me off that the government system works like that.
There are a lot of bastards out there these days.

Edit, excuse me, legitimacy challenged.
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  #1610 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2008
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Christopher Hitchen's on the banality of it all

Mr. Hitchen's surveys the rhetoric of the campaign trail and yawns.

Cliché, not plagiarism, is the problem with today's pallid political discourse. - By Christopher Hitchens - Slate Magazine
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