The New York Times finally realizes what sck5 is unwilling to admit and Obama cannot admit. Things are going well in Iraq. As to whether the Iraqi's want us there, the last three paragraphs are instructive. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/21/wo...in&oref=slogin
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“Scientists are people who build the Brooklyn Bridge and then buy it.” Wm. F. Buckley, Jr.
I find it impossible to debate about Iraq because you have to get the people you are debating with to travel back in time and descend through too many levels of B.S. that has been piled on top of the issue to even have a meaningful conversation about it. That's impossible, of course, unless the debaters are willing to be honest about it, so all you end up with is one side using it's lies to argue against the other side's lies.
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What are you pretending not to know ?
Windy,
Contrary to the impression you get here I, for one, find it quite easy to discuss. Here's how I see it, and I'd wager a good proportion of America does: If we'd known then, what we know now, we'd have not invaded. What then should we do now?
Everything else, as you say, is simply BS or just mental masturbation in some cases.
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“Scientists are people who build the Brooklyn Bridge and then buy it.” Wm. F. Buckley, Jr.
Imagine that show dreamer boy, i.e., SCK5, how wrong he is about Barry O and he just shuts the * up and goes away.
He's a politician SCK, no difference - he's just a paid mouth piece who says what ever his pollster says will get him media attention, a few votes AND MOST IMPORTANTLY MONEY.
Get over it, like all pol's he's as tarnished as 100 year old neglected silver.
Imagine that show dreamer boy, i.e., SCK5, how wrong he is about Barry O and he just shuts the * up and goes away.
He's a politician SCK, no difference - he's just a paid mouth piece who says what ever his pollster says will get him media attention, a few votes AND MOST IMPORTANTLY MONEY.
Get over it, like all pol's he's as tarnished as 100 year old neglected silver.
and MCcain is any different, chuck? i don't think so. i'm still lobbying for a none of the above selection on the ballet.
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SailorMitch
Sailing winged keels since 1989. 1.20.09 Bush's last day the end of an error !! Hopefully we still have a constitution and economy left by then.
"Compassion and tolerance are not a sign of weakness, but a sign of strength." The Dalai Lama
good planets are hard to find-- a song by steve forbert
I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience. I know no way of judging the future but by the past.-- Patrick Henry.
Windy,
Contrary to the impression you get here I, for one, find it quite easy to discuss. Here's how I see it, and I'd wager a good proportion of America does: If we'd known then, what we know now, we'd have not invaded. What then should we do now?
Everything else, as you say, is simply BS or just mental masturbation in some cases.
had we not been diverted by the decider's fascination with Saddam, who posed no threat to us, perhaps we could have done it right in afghanistan and pakistan wiped out al qeada and obl there in a lot less than 5 years and not have bankrupted the treasury in the process. then we'd have the resources handy to fulfill your dream and invade iran.
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SailorMitch
Sailing winged keels since 1989. 1.20.09 Bush's last day the end of an error !! Hopefully we still have a constitution and economy left by then.
"Compassion and tolerance are not a sign of weakness, but a sign of strength." The Dalai Lama
good planets are hard to find-- a song by steve forbert
I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience. I know no way of judging the future but by the past.-- Patrick Henry.
The salient point though Mitch, is that Obama has been preaching he isn't the same old pandering politico. Unless I've missed it, I don't believe McCain has taken a similar stance. As I said previously, I don't care for either one.
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John
Ontario 32 - Aria
Free, is the heart, that lives not, in fear.
Full, is the spirit, that thinks not, of falling.
True, is the soul, that hesitates not, to give.
Alive, is the one, that believes, in love. JCP
Windy,
Contrary to the impression you get here I, for one, find it quite easy to discuss. Here's how I see it, and I'd wager a good proportion of America does: If we'd known then, what we know now, we'd have not invaded. What then should we do now?
I think that in the years to come, President Bush will actually be judged well on this issue. I mean jump forward 20, 30 years or more ... 2050, and look back on it, what's it going to look like then ? Unless the world has fallen into greater decadence by then it seems to me like historians might give President Bush good marks - decisive, didn't let public opinion sway him when he thought he was doing the right thing, even sacrificed his own parties short term future to keep moving in what he thought was the right direction. They'll be talking about the long term effects of having invaded Iraq, how the world might have been different had it not happened, they'll have a lot of video of people burning American flags and torching paper Jimmy Carter's to look back on, terrorists at the Olympics, etc, and they'll be in a better position to put it all into historical context. Right now everyone is too fevered to see it in much context, at the moment it is all about who is going to win the 2008 election, so people will say basically anything. I've said before, I don't think Democrats have any intention of leaving Iraq, that's just what they know they have to say right now to get elected this year, but I bet looking back from 2050 they'll be talking about a continuous occupation of Iraq from now until then. Of course, a lot can happen in 50 years, and we have enjoyed relative peace for a long time, one might even say unprecedented .. memories are short, and at some point some AFOC somewhere is going to forget what the last world war was like and start another one ...
I am confident that after the 2008 election is over you're going to see a lot nicer words being said about President Bush than you do now. Even very liberal Democrats are going to start smiling a lot more, patting the man on the back, etc, that's just how it goes in politics. Even B. Clinton enjoys the respect he is due having been an American President - once they leave office there isn't any reason to keep beating up on them, and people for the most part stop doing it. There just isn't anything to be gained by continuing to drag their name through the mud.
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What are you pretending not to know ?
