Democrats versus Republicans

[chucklesR]

SCK
it's worse than rhetoric, it's insanity. Keep in mind that during the past say 50 years both houses of congress have been controlled by Dem's more than Rep's. Now point your finger at who was on watch during that time of crumbling infrastructure.
Why's it crumbling? Because instead of spending money on it the money went to building the welfare state of income redistribution you love so well.

The forgotten key to your story is the KEY. I, ME, MYSELF worked for that money. I GAVE 22 years at low wages (US Military, the great equalizer) to get my skills, only in the past 8 years have I earned a decent wage for my skills. I'll redistribute that wealth to WHO I CHOOSE, not some frigging stranger who's hi def TV and the government wants to buy.

In case you forgot, what really made America what it is is guys like me working hard to get somewhere and passing it on to OUR next generation rather than squandering it on buying Cheeto's for YOUR next generation.

I really don't get how someone as literate and well spoken, obviously smart as you are can get it bassackward every single time.

[sck5]

chucko

Clinton dismantled the welfare state years ago. you need something new to complain about.

and yes YOU worked for that money. but if you didnt have the help of all that our forebears left for you to work with you wouldnt be on that boat.

Do you REALLY think all the govt. buys is cheetos? Seems to me I saw a few roads, schools, ports etc. Did you think those things fell from heaven? DId you think some Daniel Boone type built them by himself?]

No. Taxes paid for all that. And you used it to get rich. I dont grudge you the riches one little bit but your attitude is going to make it a lot harder for the next generations to be as rich as we are.

We already slipped from being the richest country in the world (thats what having the dollar go from parity with the Euro to 50% less will do) and we are far from the fastest growing. Why? Because the infrastructure and schools arent funded. Because we are cheaping out on research and development.

You are just plain wrong if you think your taxes are going to some welfare queen's tv. It just isnt so. If you want to know where those dollars really are going (and coming from), then look here - Its a fun interactive game. You can see if your preconceptions line up with reality

Penny Game Test Page

[chucklesR]

The republican congress that finally got in dismantled the welfare system, go back about500 posts to where I proved that too you.

Ever seen a welfare mom by food? yes, the gov't buys cheeto's. Take off the rose colored glasses and look around you in the world.

If you really think for a silly assed democratic party moment that the president of this country controls the economy you just really are not worth talking to any more.
As to infrastructure, go back to good old Dwight D, republican, that's who started the largest non-welfare infrastructure building spree the world has ever seen. Now fast forward to JFK, Lyndie, Jimmy and Billy and their ilk and you know who didn't fund the upkeep.

I've seen where the money goes SCK. I lived it for years.

[poopdeckpappy]

Originally Posted by sck5

A thought for all of you guys. If you worked just as hard as you have, and were just as smart as you are, but happened NOT to be fortunate enough to have been born in the USA would you still be as rich as you are?

Of course not.

Of course not ???, did you think this question all the way thru ???, by whose standard of " RICH " are you scaling this on, the US or the country I was born in, I could have been born in a country that considers having 3 water buffalos and the right to work someone elses rice paddy upper middle class.

That means there must be something about the USA that makes working hard here worth more than working hard elsewhere. There is no secret what that is - We have trillions of dollars worth of human, physical and institutional capital to work with that allows us to get a greater return on our hard work than anywhere else.

By whose Stds

What, then, is so wrong with giving some back so the next generation can have as good a chance as you do?

That would be my choice and not yours or the governments

The republican religion of starving the governemtn of revenue has left us with crappy roads, crumbling bridges, old and overworked airports, a 50 year old air traffic control system, schools that dont even have textbooks in many cases, etc. etc. etc.

BS, it's government period, matters not whos in control

The next generation will not have as good a chance to get rich as you guys did, because you are refusing to make the investments that previous generations made for YOU.

My pervious generation invested, good work habits, responibility for my actions and the ability to make it or not on my own and it paid off.

You sound like the generation of intitlement, as in it's owed to you, half of what I make is owed to you or someone else ??....... bite me

Even worse, you are putting a pointless war on a credit card and sticking THEM with the bill.

Hey, my generation had WWII, Koren and the VN war credit card to pay, so what's your point

So dont expect me to cry you a river when you complain about doing what every previous generation did for YOU. That is just ignorance and greed.

I never got hand outs, my dad never got hand outs, my granddads never got hand outs........that is, as far as I know, although, they may have when the left Ireland in the early 1900's

But the chickens are coming home to roost

Now I know were you're coming from

But why should you guys care? You got yours already. Screw the homeless people. If they are poor its their own fault right? I sure hope you dont call yourselves Christians with attitudes like that. Jesus had a few things to say about how to relate to poor folks. Somehow I dont think you guys got that memo

No, I didn't get the memo, but that might be because you used it as ZigZag for the big Ol marley you must have smoked................dude, you're out there

[sck5]

so chuck, because you once saw a welfare mom buy cheetos you are going to defund the roads, the ports, the aids to navigation, the schools, the research, the development and all the other stuff that USED to make us the richest and fastest growing country in the world?

That is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

And you know it. You said it yourself "their ilk who didnt fund the upkeep". I would add, they didnt fund expanding it along with our population and economy either.

But the Europeans did
The Chinese did
The Indians did

When will you guys wake up and start asking why we arent the richest and fastest growing any more?

Hint - We are buying a military bigger than the next 10 countries put together while they are building schools and roads and factories.

[sck5]

"Hey, my generation had WWII, Koren and the VN war credit card to pay, so what's your point"

The point is that those wars were paid for by the generation that waged them. Everyone pitched in. I dont know if you have noticed but this war is being waged without asking anyone to sacrifice anything except the people who are actually doing the fighting.

"I never got hand outs, my dad never got hand outs, my granddads never got hand outs........"

Who said anything about handouts? What I said was, all of us have benefited from the accumulation of investment all the previous generations made (by paying taxes among other things). And now, we are living off of that instead of keeping it up and adding to it, because it takes money to fix and expand roads, it takes money to build airports, it takes money to do research and no, individuals dont do it.

But our competitors do. And that is why we arent the leaders we used to be.

[knothead]

Originally Posted by sck5

"Hey, my generation had WWII, Koren and the VN war credit card to pay, so what's your point"

The point is that those wars were paid for by the generation that waged them. Everyone pitched in. I dont know if you have noticed but this war is being waged without asking anyone to sacrifice anything except the people who are actually doing the fighting.

"I never got hand outs, my dad never got hand outs, my granddads never got hand outs........"

Who said anything about handouts? What I said was, all of us have benefited from the accumulation of investment all the previous generations made (by paying taxes among other things). And now, we are living off of that instead of keeping it up and adding to it, because it takes money to fix and expand roads, it takes money to build airports, it takes money to do research and no, individuals dont do it.

But our competitors do. And that is why we arent the leaders we used to be.

Are you kidding.You don't think that the families of the people serving are making a sacrifice?
You don't think that the companies and coworkers where the people who are serving worked are making a sacrifice?
You don't think that all of us as a society are making a sacrifice?
You have to be one of the most shortsighted people that I have ever heard.

[PBzeer]

sck5 - you're so full of patisan hatred, you let it influence your thinking. And if you put half as much effort into paying attention to what gets said, as you do cheerleading for Obama, you'd realize the conservatives are far more critical of the GOP than the Left is of the Dems.

[poopdeckpappy]

Originally Posted by sck5

I dont know if you have noticed but this war is being waged without asking anyone to sacrifice anything except the people who are actually doing the fighting.

What I have noticed is the disgusting behavior of the Dem. Congress and TOTAL lack of support by Liberals in general

Yeah.......thanks for your support.

[AdamLein]

Originally Posted by sck5

... there must be something about the USA that makes working hard here worth more than working hard elsewhere. There is no secret what that is - We have trillions of dollars worth of human, physical and institutional capital to work with that allows us to get a greater return on our hard work than anywhere else.

The most important institutions in America are not taxation and welfare, but capitalism and freedom. Where do you think these trillions of dollars worth of human, physical, and institutional capital came from? They came from individual investment and ingenuity, which you seem to have so little faith in. America's infrastructure, pretty much up to WWII, was entirely privately built. We only got to where we were because the government protected the rights of individuals to their intellectual and physical and monetary property.

Anybody who tries to make this argument an emotional one -- by trying to incite either pity (for the homeless mom) or anger (at her laziness) is trying to prevent us from using our minds to determine what's best, so I propose that we drop that line of reasoning.

Anybody who proposes that anything I produce should be taken away from me and given to somebody else -- a homeless mom today, or somebody in the "next generation" needs to explain by what right that product of mine is taken without my consent. What makes it okay for anybody (even the sacred majority) to use force against anybody else (even a despised minority)?

There is no way to justify theft on a moral level, which is why today's fringe left tells us that individuals are unimportant, that morality is relative, and that property itself is theft. The only way they can win the argument is by destroying all principles on which the argument is based. Or, they point to a homeless mom, and try to make me feel guilty for not helping her. My recommendation to anybody who cares about freedom is: not to fall into either of these traps.