Democrats versus Republicans

[erps]

A woman should have the right to choose where their life takes them, not someone else with different religious, ethnic, or moral guidelines.

I think folks who believe in honor killings probably have the same feeling about people wanting to interfere with their homocides and we're not going to change their minds either.

[chucklesR]

Sorry erps, not taking any bait on that issue.

[sailaway21]

The point is indeed moot. Among other factors, the advent of sonograms has been part of the causation in the drop in the number of abortions sought in this country. Mother's to be have difficulty seeing those images and not calling it life. Funny thing that science.

The old arguments for abortion choice have largely lost much of their original persuasiveness. While a small majority of Americans still believe abortion should be legal, more and more women are electing not to make the choice to abort. The debate is shifting in the only way it really matters; within the personal morality of each individual. Some day, probably in the distant future yet, we will regard abortion as an unpleasant part of our past about which we are ashamed, much like we do slavery.

But that change will not come by law or judicial fiat. It will come via advances in science and, what's more, advances in individual codes of morality. It's already begun.

[chucklesR]

Yes indeed the debate has shifted and change is coming, despite attempts from the religious right to curtail it or make it immoral birth control will be available, education will be available and abortion will no longer be a factor, or at least less of one (rape being rape, failed vasectomies and such it's hard to 'plan' for that).

The original argument remains, choice and freedom is individual within the scope of the law and rights of the individual. Government and it's powers end at the boundary of my skin, after that it's my responsibility and my authority.

Funny how things look from the other side of the pulpit.

[sailaway21]

Cam's Perot charts show an interesting stat on chart seven I believe it was. After defense spending, transportation and education lead the way in discretionary spending. Here's a thought. What the h*** makes either one a federal matter?

Ignoriing discretionary spending, the charts clearly show what is the elephant in the room; non-discretionary spending. Here's the deal; the largest, most selfish, most pampered, and wealthiest generation in American history, the baby-boomers, are going to enter into a form of class warfare with the succeeding generations the like of which we've never seen before. And they probably win that war because of size and age. Size is obvious and age matters because young people don't vote. They have the peculiar notion, like someone here whom will remain nameless, that their vote doesn't matter. It only doesn't matter if money doesn't matter. (Notice I left all appeals to civic virtue out of there?)

Every baby boomer wants to be in one of those Dennis Hopper commercials; you know-on the sailboat or in the glider, etc... Oops, I forgot riding horses on the beach. (Where the *&*^ do you ride horses on the beach, and who cleans up the horse-pucky?) And they expect to do all that despite not having saved a dime. Of course those who did save a couple of dimes expect no less a return on their social security contributions than Ma Kettle. "It's my money" should perhaps be answered with, "Yeah, well we spent it on an aircraft carrier-you want's we drop an anchor in your yard?"

If the domestic challenge of the last quarter century has been undoing the excesses of the 1960's, I believe the domestic challenge of the next twenty five years will be undoing the pernicious effects of Roosevelt's New Deal. Conservatives, and Republicans in general, should remember that there was a valid reason that your conservative grandfather's despised Roosevelt. roosevelt was the midwife to the nanny state.

This battle is going to be ugly, on both the liberal and conservative sides. I fully expect libs, whose former favorite punch line was-what about the children-to say screw 'em when it comes to funding their retirement. Everyone's ox will be gored and there will be blood.

[sailaway21]

Originally Posted by chucklesR

Yes indeed the debate has shifted and change is coming, despite attempts from the religious right to curtail it or make it immoral birth control will be available, education will be available and abortion will no longer be a factor, or at least less of one (rape being rape, failed vasectomies and such it's hard to 'plan' for that).

The original argument remains, choice and freedom is individual within the scope of the law and rights of the individual. Government and it's powers end at the boundary of my skin, after that it's my responsibility and my authority.

Funny how things look from the other side of the pulpit.

That argument really isn't worthy of you. I know for a fact that you're smarter than that. And, btw, I thought you didn't want to discuss the matter. (g) You're the only one to have mentioned religion. Near as I can tell everyone else was having a secular discussion here.

And for someone whose big pink ass was owned by Uncle Sam for so many years, I'm surprised that you'd think your skin was any limitation to his control!

[chucklesR]

My ass is tanned quite brown thank you, and I reserve the right to discuss or not - as to how smart I am, it fortunately does not get in my way to form an opinion on matters, one I can live with.

[erps]

The old arguments for abortion choice have largely lost much of their original persuasiveness. While a small majority of Americans still believe abortion should be legal, more and more women are electing not to make the choice to abort. The debate is shifting in the only way it really matters; within the personal morality of each individual. Some day, probably in the distant future yet, we will regard abortion as an unpleasant part of our past about which we are ashamed, much like we do slavery.

If doctors would just hand the forceps over to the mother after securing the baby's skull and explain to the mother that the popping sensation they feel when they squeeze the forceps was their baby, we could get past this embarassing time in our history a lot faster.

[wind_magic]

I just think abortion is really sad.

[danjarch]

Here's the deal; the largest, most selfish, most pampered, and wealthiest generation in American history, the baby-boomers, are going to enter into a form of class warfare with the succeeding generations the like of which we've never seen before.

I read a book that speculated on some of the biggest problems we're going to be facing in the coming decades. It called this one "age rage". It could quickly become the biggest problem facing the civilized world. Not the least is that its not limited to America. It is a growing problem in Europe and Asia as well.

The speculation is the soceity will shift into three to four factions. The Aged who continue pushing for more and more without considering the consiquinces. The aged that tries to quell the storm by pushing against as well as refusing to accept some of the excess. On the other hand we could see an increasingly angry public that starts to attack the old. But the scariest group would be the black marketiers. They would refuse to work for other then cash.

That could become the death blow to the union. As the IRS starts to spend large amounts of the incomeing revenue to hunt down and collect from these under the table men, there would be less and less money for other items now provided by the fed. Every thing from roads to the army would have to be severly cut to continue funding the retired. We could quickly find more then half the productive population becoming defacto criminals.

Of course this is all speculation but it has a ring of truth that is scary. I hate to say it but between the increasing pettyness of politics and the slim chances of there being any resolution to the medicare and social security problems, I could see it coming about. It would start easy enough. Most of the guys I know are having a bit of trouble making ends meet and come out with a little extra. It doesn't take long to start making more at odd jobs on the weekends then your take home pay. Pretty soon your cutting back at work and picking up more side jobs.

I geuss will have to wait and see what going to happen. Neither party has a good record when it comes to these issues. The reps talk big, but they just enacted the largest expansion of medicaid. The Dems have a long history of feeding this beast as well.

Go figure, maybe I'll vote libitarian this time. Oh well couldn't make this issue any worse.