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  #2811 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2008
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Here's to the ignorant Independent, the real ruler of America. You committed folks should be .. well, committed; neither one of the parties is right or even qualified to express a unbiased opinon on all the issues all the time and folks that vote a straight party line are just blind lemmings following what is assuredly a ego driven non-altruistic politican over a cliff of their own making.

Vote for Chuckles as a write in, at least I admit I'm going to take your money and do diddly for 4 years, then go on a book selling, speaking tour and get rich.
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  #2812 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beej67 View Post
America has turned every issue into Either Or instead of Both or Compromise. This is done, by and large, because of the 2 party system, but also because it makes for better Newstainment.
I'm reminded of something Will Rogers is reputed to have said, "Broad minded is just another way of saying a fellow's to lazy to form an opinion."


The idea of Both or Compromise is alluring but often a false god. When it comes to government it usually results in a horse with two heads or two asses. There is generally a demonstratively better solution to each issue. In the 1960's we thought that the Great Society programs were that solution. In the 80's and 90's we decided that they were not. Would we have been better off trying just a little bit of welfare, etc...probably not. We'd have never repudiated the system as we did in the 90's had we not tried it so thoroughly in the previous decades.

Compromise is what get's you a missle that fits in a ship's magazine, provides lots of jobs in an important congressional district, makes money for the contractor, and can't do what it is supposed to do, like hit the broad side of a barn. Compromise or Both get's you a Centurion tank that the Army neither wants nor sees a need for. Compromise or Both get's you a bridge to nowhere in Alaska while bridges in Minneapolis are falling out from under cars.

Compromise gets you the US Postal Service where we pay people a good wage to do things other than deliver the mail in a timely fashion.

On the other hand, ruthless partisanship gets you things like the New Deal, or a six hundred ship Navy, or ballistic missile defense, or the equivalent of FedEx.

To the victor go the spoils and that's why elections matter; so the party you elect doesn't have to compromise and can get done what you sent them to Washington for.
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  #2813 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2008
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What a Republican economic policy should look like!

How to get working class Americans to vote for conservative Republicans as well as restore the growth to the American economy. A moderately lengthy article on what works and why. And a condemnation of Republicans content to be Democrat-Lite. (just a tidbit to wet your appetite: which states are growing fastest and do they have an income tax?)

The American Spectator
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  #2814 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2008
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Compromise is an independent who understands tax cuts improve the economy, big government is not good government, over regulation is bad for growth and the economy as well as individual freedom, people should have to at least try to fend for themselves economically before a hand out is provided, sometimes government is the best answer, and yet free to choose on issues like birth control
Compromise is believing no single way is the right way, and a williness to understand or seek to understand anothers point of view.

Compromise is not on the platform of any party in politics in America because they are too full of themselves to believe they could be wrong.

Someday independents will rule this country, unfortunately the ability of the american people to put up will rigid stupity is so far higher than the silliness of the 'either / or ' platforms of either party
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  #2815 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2008
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Aside from the inconsistencies in your basically conservative philosophy as expressed above (conservatives believe you should be free to choose on your birth control and not have it mandated by government) I believe you make a fundamental, if common, error on the nature and practise of democratic republicanism.

Independents will not, as in never, rule the country because, well, they're independent. The only way that independents achieve any power is by becoming part of a coalition which, in our case, is one of the two parties. Two party's are enough because anything more merely dilutes the ability to form a coalition. The coalition does not compromise on it's platform as to do so is to weaken the coalition and results in it's dissolution. That some members of the coalition leave the party/coalition due to their unwillingness to compromise on their individual beliefs is inevitable. The vast majority do not do so until such time as the party has drifted so far away from their core beliefs that membership cannot be maintained regardless of the few areas where agreement remains. The only reason for joining the coalition in the first place is to lend weight and power to those issues most important to the specific individual. Thus in my case, as a conservative, I will leave the Republican party when it's platform is no longer conservative. In the meantime I will fight to keep it as conservative as possible.

Ronald Reagan and Jeanne Kirkpatrick left the Democrat party because they could no longer reconcile their belief that communism must be resisted with the platform of the Democrat party. Reagan also had serious concerns about the limitations of government and it's growth.

The nature of democratic republicanism is that rarely does the citizen get all that he desires. But to get most of what he desires he, the individual citizen, compromises on some issues of lesser importance to him. Were the party to do so on it's platform it would lose the ability to attract members willing to compromise on some of their beliefs in order to gain representation for their core beliefs.

The independent can wax and wane between parties but in the end he is left wanting and disappointed. Without the strength in numbers of like minded individuals as he, he is powerless. Similarly as a non-party member he is powerless to reform or shape the movement of either party. In the end he is forced to take what's given him only hoping that the prevailing public mood and the party that best represents it are similar to his own beliefs.

Most people understand this because you witness such attention being paid to the issue of flip-flopping. As John Francois Kerry found out; you can be for a war or against a war but you cannot be both at the same time. What seems to resonate much in those voting for a president is an assurance of knowing exactly where the man stands consistently. They are then free to choose or not choose to vote for him depending on how much they align themselves with the majority of the candidate's beliefs. Thus most of our votes are compromise votes as no candidate fully reflects all of our beliefs in total. But what we do not do is to vote for a candidate who then veers and compromises on the very beliefs that we elected him on. (see GHW Bush pledge on "no new taxes" and how a 90% approval rating dissolved against a candidate from obscurity)

If you do not believe that your way, your belief, or your policies are the single best way then you do not deserve the office, and you will probably not be elected to the office. It is not an unwillingness or even a lack of understanding of other's point of view that prevents a candidate from winning or governing effectively. What makes for effective governance is that the candidate has examined both sides of an issue and, having found one wanting, forms an opinion and runs on it. This is not to say that circumstances do not change and that he may not change that opinion later but it is to say that, he risks losing reelection if he does not change for what is commonly perceived as a damn good reason. And without being in office it matters little what his opinion is since he's powerless to act upon it.

So you're either part of the system or you're out of the system. Third party's come and go with little left in their wake. And the system is democratic republicanism. It favors consensus over compromise yet favors stagnation over action. Thus for the citizen concerned about the nature of government action within the party structure and coalition building are of paramount importance. To be independent in the battle merely means getting shot by one side or the other but assuredly getting shot.

On a personal note, there are many things that you and I agree upon and many in which we differ. The only requirement for both of us to meet in a specific party is that we agree upon that which is most important to both of us, letting slide what is less so important for the goal of achieving what is most so. I suspect that you, like I, am always suspicious of one who always takes the party line. It denotes either lack of knowledge of the party line or a lack of either imagination or intellectual rigor.

Thus endeth my amateur civics lesson as I see it. (and I believe the Founders made it. )
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Old 07-09-2008
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  #2818 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2008
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Must see viewing

John McCain meets my Aunt Vera.

YouTube - Feisty Woman Warns McCain Against Raising Taxes



just kidding about the Aunt part, but might have been!
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  #2819 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2008
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After listening to the wailing and gnashing of teeth over the FISA laws and the surveillance immunity to the telephone companies by the libs and the Dem candidates for quite some time, what did the Dem.-controlled Congress do? Well, they voted for what the President asked for. Including Mr. Obama. You libs are really getting a lot of bang for your buck with this Democratic Congress, aren't you?

Senate bows to Bush, approves surveillance bill - Yahoo! News

So what's the truth? What you say or how you vote? In this case, thank god it's an election year.
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Old 07-09-2008
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Not to mention, Congress' approval rating has now fallen into single digits for the first time.
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