Democrats versus Republicans

[sck5]

Obama didnt say he wanted them out in 60 days. He said he wanted them to START getting out in 60 days and to be gone 16 months later depending on conditions on the ground. You may disagree, but that is what he has consistently said.

And now the President of Iraq has endorsed Obama's position. So you guys who want to stay are in favor of occupying countries whose elected governments want us gone?

Democracy is for us but not for them?

[sck5]

PB

Drudge is sometimes right and sometimes wrong - You need to wait for somebody else to confirm or not.

[PBzeer]

Political Radar: McCain OpEd Not Up to NY Times' Snuff

[sailaway21]

It's just great that the NYT is vetting Senator McCain's articles for originality and quality of prose. As usual there is more beneath the surface that is not quite so apparent.

David Shipley is the editor of the NYT op-ed page. His wife's name, no troglodyte it's not Mrs Shipley-the enlightened and empowered no longer share last names, is Naomi Wolf. That name should sound familiar to poli-sci junkies on sailnet as she was the principal player in the regular Sunday morning coffee klatch just yesterday. For those who missed it, here's more on where the leading intellectual giant of the left is coming from: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/off-to...isms-left.html

Mr. Shipley's wife is regarded as a guiding intellectual light of the new left, which is really the old left now that Clinton's have flamed out, or maybe it's been the old left all along. While the op-ed page editorial of the NYT is usually written by the op-ed editor, as at all newspapers, one would think that the op-ed's leanings wouldn't effect the choice of opposing viewpoints. But then, this is the NYT.

I doubt that Cynthia McKinney would have any trouble getting her views in print. Yeah, that Cynthia McKinney; assaulter of Capitol police, certified incoherent wack-job, and Green Party candidate for the presidency.

[PBzeer]

Obama has reiterated his 16 month timetable is firm, regardless of conditions on the ground.

From his July 15 speech on Iraq:
"We can safely redeploy our combat brigades at a pace that would remove them in 16 months."

This is said BEFORE even going to Iraq, and talking with the Military or Iraqi government. In fact, all of his pronouncements have come prior to any first hand knowledge of the Iraq or Afghanistan situations.

For myself, I generally check the weather before I leave the dock, not afterwards. I set my course on what is possible, not on what I'd like.

[PBzeer]

And not to mention, Mr Shipley himself is a former Clinton appointee.

[PBzeer]

I'm curious sck5, are you for Obama for his positions expressed during the primary campaign, or his new positions following the primaries?

(Yes, I know your answer will be to point out McCain's changes, but then, I've never said I'm in favor of McCain.)

[poopdeckpappy]

Originally Posted by sck5

And now the President of Iraq has endorsed Obama's position.

You're falling into the media maelstrom

Withdraw from Iraq " depending on conditions on the ground " has been the plan since day one.

The fact that BHO has recently added this phase to his stance, is just more evidents of his backpeddeling and this phase is what has pissed off his core group to no end.

PM Nouri al Maliki isn't endorsing the BHO plan, he merely conceeding that BHO is on the same page finally

[sck5]

It is crystal clear to me that Obama wants out of Iraq and McCain doesnt or at a minimum not so much. The details that the newsies argue about are all pretty meaningless to me but I would imagine all of us here can agree on the above - Obama says he will get us out sooner and McCain wants to stay however long it takes to win (though I am unclear what that would look like)

As a practical matter, if Obama does what he says and gets us out in 16 months I will proclaim him an honest man and be happy that he did what he said. If he at least gets us out by the time he runs for reelection I will consider that close enough for government work and still be happy. If he doesnt do it by then I wont be voting for him.

As for McCain, if we are so unfortunate as to have him for a prez then I expect we will have one or two NEW wars to worry about and I will be worrying about my son getting drafted for a pointless mindless war that could go on indefinitely

[sck5]

by the way Drudge was right on this one