Democrats versus Republicans

[Sapperwhite]

Originally Posted by sailaway21

Those who slept through civics class, now awakening Rip Van Winkle like, may find the concept of executive orders shocking. Rest easy. Executive orders are how the president asserts the power vested within that office. In this instance, it is the puruance of the congressional mandate for the invasion of Iraq. An executive order is necessary if the Justice Department is going to seize assests within the US deemed to be aiding the enemy in Iraq. The same methodology was used, for instance, to freeze all Iranian assests when the hostages were taken in the 1970's. If certain groups, foreign or domestic, are raising money for Al-Qaeda for instance within madrasssas and mosques within the US their assests may be seized. The nature of executive orders is that they are generally temporary and designed to a specific need. A brief review of recent history will show nothing new about this order, either in intent or scope.

Ahem...

I, GEORGE W. BUSH, President of the United States of America, find that, due to the unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States posed by acts of violence threatening the peace and stability of Iraq and undermining efforts to promote economic reconstruction and political reform in Iraq and to provide humanitarian assistance to the Iraqi people, it is in the interests of the United States to take additional steps with respect to the national emergency declared in Executive Order 13303 of May 22, 2003, and expanded in Executive Order 13315 of August 28, 2003, and relied upon for additional steps taken in Executive Order 13350 of July 29, 2004, and Executive Order 13364 of November 29, 2004. I hereby order: ................

EO 13303 http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...030522-15.html

EO 13303 in effect set a broad legal shield for entities with intrest in Iraqi oil revenues. EO 13303 sec.3(b) The term 'entity' means a partnership, association, trust, joint venture, corporation, group, subgroup, or other organization;

So..... "undermining efforts to promote economic reconstruction and political reform in Iraq and to provide humanitarian assistance to the Iraqi people, it is in the interests of the United States to take additional steps with respect to the national emergency declared in Executive Order 13303 " could be the language used to seize your property if you object to, oh say, a no bid Haliburton contract to "rebuild infastructure", and said objection is found to be "undermining" that operation. What is defined as undermining?

(ii) to have materially assisted, sponsored, or provided financial, material, logistical, or technical support for, or goods or services in support of, such an act or acts of violence or any person whose property and interests in property are blocked pursuant to this order; or

So.... Don't show up at, or even support in any way, a rally outside of a Haliburton facility in protest of their "reconstruction" efforts: Your property can be seized.


Yes EOs are nothing new, but when they are written in such a sweeping and broad manner as to be enforcable upon people who simply openly don't agree with a policy....thats dangerously close to dictatorship.

Flame on.

[sailaway21]

Forget Gonzales, if you want to read how screwed up things are here in these united states, read the link in my above post number 303. If you pass on my bloviations, I'll understand. (g)

(and, if you're my straight man there is one side benefit. according to Giu, that'd make you and I the only two non-gays on site!)

[sailaway21]

Lordy,
Now i've got to worry about living in a dictatorship? I better back up. I was all the way down to the 'H's in my dictionary checking out "hyperbole". Now I've got to page back to the 'D's. Do you suppose they'll burn the Capitol building ala Kristalnacht? Who'd a thunk such a dummie would end up the first American dictator? You figure there was something to that bugging of Ross Perot's daughter's wedding? Wow, does this mean we'll finally have a solution to the Amtrack mess, and they'll run on time? I did notice all the fall fashions in Vogue were in shades of brown. Is Vogue a Halliburton property?

[Sapperwhite]

Originally Posted by sailaway21

Forget Gonzales, if you want to read how screwed up things are here in these united states, read the link in my above post number 303. If you pass on my bloviations, I'll understand. (g)

(and, if you're my straight man there is one side benefit. according to Giu, that'd make you and I the only two non-gays on site!)

Put District Attorney Berrys ass throught the ol' Nifong ringer (disbarment and restitutions type thing). Ridiculous.

[tdw]

Originally Posted by sailaway21

Forget Gonzales, if you want to read how screwed up things are here in these united states, read the link in my above post number 303. If you pass on my bloviations, I'll understand. (g)

(and, if you're my straight man there is one side benefit. according to Giu, that'd make you and I the only two non-gays on site!)

Shall do.

That's a relief !

[Sapperwhite]

Originally Posted by sailaway21

Lordy,
Now i've got to worry about living in a dictatorship? I better back up. I was all the way down to the 'H's in my dictionary checking out "hyperbole". Now I've got to page back to the 'D's. Do you suppose they'll burn the Capitol building ala Kristalnacht? Who'd a thunk such a dummie would end up the first American dictator? You figure there was something to that bugging of Ross Perot's daughter's wedding? Wow, does this mean we'll finally have a solution to the Amtrack mess, and they'll run on time? I did notice all the fall fashions in Vogue were in shades of brown. Is Vogue a Halliburton property?

Like I said, flame on. The "H" connection was an easy, exteme example. But lets say that you belong to a certain mosque, and that mosques leaders are later found to be sending money to "the wrong people". You make charitable donations to that mosque and claim them come tax time. You, as defined in these EOs , have "provided financial, material, logistical, or technical support" to a group that falls under the target of this EO, and as such you are now a target of this EO. Property seized.

[sailaway21]

And rightly so. If you monitor your charitable giving no more closely than to not know that you are supporting an Islamist group, you'll be lucky to only be convicted of stupidity. If you are comfortable in the thinking that those mosques and madrassas are preaching peace and tolerance you might investigate the recent attempted bombings in the UK. There are numerous references posted in the Islamism thread.

[Sapperwhite]

Originally Posted by sailaway21

And rightly so. If you monitor your charitable giving no more closely than to not know that you are supporting an Islamist group, you'll be lucky to only be convicted of stupidity. If you are comfortable in the thinking that those mosques and madrassas are preaching peace and tolerance you might investigate the recent attempted bombings in the UK. There are numerous references posted in the Islamism thread.

So you know specifically how all of your christian(or jewish, or whatever) donations are used. There is no possible way for that money to be used in any way that would be unknown to you? It's use it totally transparent?

Do you think it's OK for Jewish leaders to use donated money to support a war against Palestine. Is that an OK way to use donations for religious war?

The point isn't religion anyway, the point is United States citizens property can be seized because they don't "stay the course".

[Sapperwhite]

Originally Posted by sailaway21

Lordy,
Now i've got to worry about living in a dictatorship? I better back up. I was all the way down to the 'H's in my dictionary checking out "hyperbole". Now I've got to page back to the 'D's. Do you suppose they'll burn the Capitol building ala Kristalnacht? Who'd a thunk such a dummie would end up the first American dictator? You figure there was something to that bugging of Ross Perot's daughter's wedding? Wow, does this mean we'll finally have a solution to the Amtrack mess, and they'll run on time? I did notice all the fall fashions in Vogue were in shades of brown. Is Vogue a Halliburton property?

And no, I don't wear a tinfoil hat.

[wind_magic]

Bush is hard for Democrats for sure, as long as Democrats keep talking about Bush they aren't talking about anything else. Like the saying "There is no such thing as bad publicity", so long as the conversation is about Republicans and Bush, Republicans are happy. As it's about Republicans, it's not about whatever good ideas Democrats might have or not have, and in the end the public is left thinking Democrats don't have any ideas about anything, and that Republicans are the ones making all the decisions and taking all the action. It's kind of like the high school girl who chooses between the smart quiet kid or the jock who is a complete *******.

Democrats need to be for more than "not Bush", especially at a time when Bush is already gone, whoosh ... he's out of here, he only has about a year left, see ya. If all you are is "not Bush", then what are you when Bush is drawing up plans for his Presidential Library and drinking beers out at the ranch ?