Democrats versus Republicans

[chucklesR]

Aye, but would you vote for an immediate increase of SSN tax to 10%?
Forget the pipe dream of people investing their own way to retirement. Doesn't happen on 20k-40k a year.
I could see removing the cap and taxing the whole paycheck, but that's the bilge pump type fix not a solution.

How about doubling Medicare tax to a hefty 6+ %?

No, the pipe dream is to have politicians 'fix' the system by some other means like reducing costs or the fee schedule.
I see what medicare pays for services as the Tricare system pays on the medicare schedule. 15 bucks does NOT pay for an x-ray (for example) no way a hospital can work on that schedule.
The fix is not to cut services or reduce cost - no government run social program has ever successfully done that outside of Regan's welfare reform.

The fix is raising taxes, equally across the board. I'm strongly opposed to graduated taxes, it means there is no equal ownership.

[PBzeer]

Of course, it would help if they quit spending the SS tax money on general government. And without that, raising the tax does nothing towards any kind of a solution.

That would be one of my criteria for raising the tax, along with no lowering of benefits and no increase in eligible age.

One of the few things I agree with Bush on, is privatizing SS. The infrastructure is already in place with the TSP system. Set a date and age at which all SS contributions go there instead of SS, and once those in SS are gone, you have a self-sustaining system based on individual responsibility, rather than government whim.

Any Ponzi scheme starts to fall apart when the bottom of the pyramid becomes smaller than the part above it, and that's just where SS is going. Rather than perpetuate it, we need to end it.

[PBzeer]

Back to the election though .....

After reading a number of the pro-Obama columnists this morning I'm reminded of football. The draft in particular. The Dems have drafted their franchise quarterback in Obama, based not on past performance, but on supposed potential. Rather than picking someone with a career of accomplishment through HS and college, they've gone with someone who has had a few great games, and hope it will translate into success. I have a feeling they picked Ryan Leaf instead of Peyton Manning though.

[Sailormon6]

Originally Posted by wind_magic

Obvious points such as, 1) Congress actually does the business of congress (not the President),

But the President has the power to veto Congressional action if he doesn't agree with it, and he has a bully pulpit, to fire up the electorate and put pressure on Congress to make concessions to his way of thinking.

2) That it's a pipe dream that Lieberman would get picked by McCain, etc ... well, the best I can say about that is that I had hopes I could be given the benefit of the doubt so that I wouldn't have to post 5 pages but instead could just post the one paragraph, but I should have known this was Sailnet and that wasn't going to happen.

If it takes 5 pages to explain your thinking, maybe your reasoning is too convoluted. Maybe you're starting from the conclusion that you desire, and are rationalizing your way to that conclusion.

But on the substance of what was said, that the Republicans wouldn't get behind McCain Lieberman, I actually disagree with that a little bit. McCain Lieberman could be trust brokers as President/VP, because I really think they could get past differences and agree on some key things that really could get support from everyone. Again I said it's a mistake to think I like this combination because they are "moderate", that's untrue, I don't see it as a compromise position between two dualistic extremes, that is only how Democrats and Republicans see it because they always look at each other as "the enemy". I, instead, see McCain Lieberman as a solid platform that can put forth some actual solid plans that could be put into action.

Democrats and Republicans who have never seen politics from the inside often believe that they are enemies, but the pros, such as the leaders of each party in Congress and the President, size each other up as either people who "you can do business with," and people who you can't. Ronald Reagan and Tip O'Neill were friendly with each other, and could do political business with each other. John McCain has demonstrated an ability to do business with Democrats. Whether you agree or not, President Bush has been extraordinarily successful in doing business with the Democrats. He persuaded them to agree with the Afghan war, and the Iraq war, and he successfully fought off the effort to pull out prematurely or to set a date for a pullout, he persuaded them to continue funding it, he persuaded them to allow the surge, he persuaded them to enact and re-enact the Patriot Act with the provisions that he regarded as most crucial, and he got many other concessions from them earlier in his Presidency, such as No Child Left Behind. In spite of all the flaming rhetoric that the Democrats have hurled at President Bush and his policies, the Democrats have continued to provide enough votes in Congress to support him and his most important policies whenever they were put to a vote in Congress.

If you really want to understand what the Democrats and Republicans are actually doing, ignore the rhetoric and examine their actual votes in Congress.

Think of it from the opposite point of view - say Obama wins, for example. WTF is Obama/Biden going to propose that enough moderate Republicans and Democrat's are both going to support to do anybody any good ? I mean, seriously. Obama could tell Republicans that he wants to eat at Wendy's and Republicans would fight and say no they want to go to Subway. Can Obama Biden actually propose ANYTHING that Republicans are going to support ? Hell no. And you Democrats out there, are you going to support ANYTHING that Romney supports ? McCain Lieberman could put together real plans that could leave all the special interests sitting outside shivering in the cold.

Regardless of whether Obama or McCain is elected, the Democrats and Republicans will continue hurling flaming rhetoric at each other, while "doing business" as they generally believe is required in the best interests of the nation. That's the way politics really works.

[wind_magic]

Originally Posted by Sailormon6

If it takes 5 pages to explain your thinking, maybe your reasoning is too convoluted. Maybe you're starting from the conclusion that you desire, and are rationalizing your way to that conclusion.

Whatever, dude.

[PBzeer]

Nice to know it wasn't just my imagination ....

The Racism Excuse - WSJ.com

Funny how every election lately, the Dems have their excuses in place before a single vote is cast.

[sck5]

Unfortunately there ARE a lot of people in some places who wont vote for a black man. Do you doubt it?

[PBzeer]

And there's also a lot of blacks that won't vote for a white man, just as there's also a lot of people that won't vote for a Republican or Democrat. And no, I don't deny there is racism. It's a fact of life, just like the many other predjudices among human beings. To brand opposition to Obama, merely in terms of race though, is just as racist. There are distinct and many policy differences between Obama and McCain, and to try to somehow ignore those as a reason for voting against Obama puts the lie to the whole "post-racial" hype.

[Sailormon6]

Originally Posted by sck5

Unfortunately there ARE a lot of people in some places who wont vote for a black man. Do you doubt it?

Likewise there ARE a lot of black people who won't vote for McCain when a black man is on the ballot. So, what's your point? If you're suggesting that racial bias can be found in people of every race, I'll agree with that. If you're suggesting that I should vote for a person simply because I'm disgusted that some people are racists, and I'm supposed to have some misguided sense of guilt, you're off base.

[chucklesR]

When will blacks realize that racism is a two way street?

Many, many times in the military I went to command functions and watched all the black folks gather at a single table and play cards etc.. and never once get up an socialize - not because they couldn't, nay, because they wouldn't.

It's a two way street folks.