Democrats versus Republicans

[Giulietta]

I think its the other guy, with the white hair that wins.. why??

Statistically US never had a "non white" or a female president.
Giulianni will lose to some scandal

Left is the Mackahn or whatever is his name

The guy Ron Paul, I liked hearing him once when I was in Portsmouth.

[tdw]

Originally Posted by sailaway21

Where'd you get the idea Joe Biden was pro war?

He's slick as an eel, and I don't mean that positively.

Following the September 11, 2001 attacks, Biden was supportive of the Bush administration efforts, calling for additional ground troops in Afghanistan and agreeing with the administration's assertion that Saddam Hussein needed to be eliminated. The Bush administration rejected an effort Biden undertook with Senator Richard Lugar to pass a resolution authorizing military action only after the exhaustion of diplomatic efforts. In October 2002, Biden voted for the final resolution to support the war in Iraq. He has long supported the Bush Administration's war effort and appropriations to pay for it, but has argued repeatedly that more soldiers are needed, the war should be internationalized, and the Bush administration should "level with the American people" about the cost and length of the conflict. (Wikipedia)

Ok so not the most authorative source on earth.

I did notice elsewhere that he has now moved to a "get 'em out by end 08' position.

[cardiacpaul]

While I appreicate Ron Pauls candor, I fear he'll be seen as a nut-job. Some of his views, while "pure" to him and his beliefs, are far off from being workable, some of his solutions are very simplistic. While thats not a bad thing, some of those same simple solutions leave more problems than they'll solve. (just opinion)

Joe Biden, don't get me started. Plagerism in LAW SCHOOL and he was head of the judicary committee in the Senate. Yea, I know he wasn't offically punished, but for that to have happened he was required to retake the course. A "deal" was struck, so to speak.

Barak has been able to prove that foot in mouth disease is alive and well in the party, thats what he gets for saying what he thinks people want to hear, rather than forming his own ideas... Wait, those are his own ideas. Hmmm, might want to think before you engage the lips.

Hilary (aka Bill with balls) She's the "I know exactly what is best for you unwashed, unenlighted masses, and I'm now going to tell you why you're not bright enough to run your own lives" candidate.
Which way does the wind blow today honey?
Am I for the war/invasion? your votes say yes, your words say, oh hell no, I never did that. (from cnn)

"Obviously, I've thought about that a lot in the months since," she said. "No, I don't regret giving the president authority because at the time it was in the context of weapons of mass destruction, grave threats to the United States, and clearly, Saddam Hussein had been a real problem for the international community for more than a decade."

also from CNN
"The consensus was the same, from the Clinton administration to the Bush administration," she said. "It was the same intelligence belief that our allies and friends around the world shared."

Does anyone remember the national health care plan she wanted to push thru as first lady?

"nobody ever went broke by underestimating the intelligence of the plain people" -Menken

400.00 haircut Edwards that "feels the pain" of poverty... building a 28,000 sqare foot house, (complete with riding ring and horse barns on 106 acres) gotta love it.

oh, the GOP isn't all that much better.

[Sapperwhite]

This is pretty cute..... All of you running around waving your Republican flags explain this one. I'm going to need something better than "after 9/11 everything changed". And for those that don't know, I am NOT a Dem., so don't try that "you dirty liberal scoundrel" crap. And please, don't evoke the name of Regan, because he isn't in office, however this a-hole is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BEsZMvrq-I

[Rickm505]

That's a big problem in this country, no one remembers anything. We have attention spans of 5 minutes. For those who are about to try and flame Sapper, that really was Dick Cheney who was Secretary of Defense at the time.

Nice job Sapper, you seem to have hoisted them up their yardarms by their underwear.

[cardiacpaul]

In 1991 it would have been a mistake to invade.

After 14 years of broken promises to the UN by Hussein, and numuerous unheeded UN Sanctions, it became time to invade.

from Mme Albright:

On March 26, 1997, Madeleine Albright said, in her first major foreign policy address as Secretary of State: “We do not agree with the nations who argue that if Iraq complies with its obligations concerning weapons of mass destruction, sanctions should be lifted. Our view, which is unshakable, is that Iraq must prove its peaceful intentions. It can only do that by complying with all of the Security Council resolutions to which it is subjected. Is it possible to conceive of such a government under Saddam Hussein? When I was a professor, I taught that you have to consider all possibilities. As Secretary of State, I have to deal in the realm of reality and probability. And the evidence is overwhelming that Saddam Hussein’s intentions will never be peaceful.”

sharpen your own petard.

[Rickm505]

I know the guy wasn't a saint. He's already tried to invade his neighbors. We even backed the guy when he went after Iran, and gave him an under the table OK for Kuwait. After all said and done, I don't know if the world is better off without him.

Besides, I never saw that invading countries was in our job description and I sure would like the pre Iraq invasion price of gasoline back again. The real irony is that what Cheney said in that video is exactly what's happening now. Or didn't that video play correctly for you?

Incidently, my children have fought in Iraq. For you to take this stance I'd like to hear that yours have too. I'm tired of people with nothing to lose pontificating that we should start wars. And please tell me you know the difference between Afganhistan and Iraq.

[cardiacpaul]

Rick,

http://www.legacy.com/washingtonpost...sonId=15760363
Please take a look. He was on his second tour and had already signed up for a third. And for what its worth, I'd like a "thank you for his service" for him. Cuz he's dead bub, he ain't comin' back. He was killed when a call came in that a couple of wounded GI's were at a local hospital. he and his driver ran over an IED then shot at with a Grenade launcher. He's in Arlington now.
this man
http://www.cid.army.mil/commander.htm
delivered his eulogy.
Don't go there with me, it won't be pretty.

I lost an Uncle that I never knew in China in 1949.
Had brothers in the vietnam action, a cousin that was a navy medivac pilot, My father serveed both of my grandfathers served and far too many uncles to coun... served.
My 16 year old son wants to be an MP.

Yes, I can hear the words and I do get the meaning of those words.

Besides, I never saw that invading countries was in our job description
I'm glad that you think so... I'm pretty sure our allies don't. I'm pretty sure that even the french were kinda glad we showed up.

I sure would like the pre Iraq invasion price of gasoline back again.

Then call your congressman and politely ask why there hasn't been a SINGLE refinery built in the US in over 20 years... and while he's telling you the fish-kissin' tree-huggin' greenies lobbied the EPA with enough regulations that the oil companies said "hell no, we ain't doin' it".

Ask him why we're still using coal and EXPENSIVE natural gas when Nukes are SO much more efficent, cleaner, and leave a much smaller enviro footprint. Don't start with Cherynobyl, cuz I'll come back with some hell-ashis figures about black lung, and oh, in case you haven't noticed, there are some dead guys in utah that were digging the black stuff, oh,yea, a couple of more dead guys trying to get those dead guys out... hmmm, coal, a better idea.

Ask him why we haven't touched any of the reserves in the Rockies, the north slope, off the coast of california, or up and down the eastern seaboard. Why not indeed? 'cuz the sierra club doesn't want us to, thats why. So, deal with it.

While you're at it, ask him why every single oil well from Plano to Oklahoma city is pumping today, and every day that the price of west texas sweet crude stays above 71.00 a barrel. When the price drops to 70.00 a barrel, they all stop.

And please tell me you know the difference between Afganhistan and Iraq.
I can find both a map, and point out the geo-political and socio-economic differences between the two, and add in Syria and Turkey, and throw in the Sauds if you'd like.

Wanna start with me? Perhaps a discussion concerning the major idiosyncratic/religous differences between the Kurds, Sh'ites and Sunnis would be in order? Perhaps we could discuss the caste/clan/warlord biometric and how it relates to the governing body in Kabul?

[sailaway21]

It doesn't really matter if one is a Democrat or not, foolishness wears many guises. There were many incidents prior to September 11, 2001 to indicate that volatility in world affairs was increasing. Much as in the buildup to WWI, events in many small countries, actions in remote sections of the globe, all presaged the inevitable events to follow. Few will remember the Archduke Ferdinand for reasons other than his assasination being the final straw that plunged the world into war. The events of September the eleventh were significant not so much in that everything changed afterwards, although it did, but in that it was no longer possible to ignore the fact that the world had changed. Islamism became a force that could not be denied and demanded reckoning with.


For some, the denial of a problem with Islamism is the solution. At heart, these people are not willing to do the heavy lifting necessary to ensure world freedom from Islamic jihad and life under sharia. This only becomes a problem when their brand of personal self-realization, and it's attendent psycho-therapy, is elevated to level of national policy. It would probably be best if they worked out their feelings of western guilt in a more private format than the world stage. In the meantime, it would be gracious of them to sit down and let thiose who are not in denial about what took place on September 11th and before to take the actions necessary to not only prevent further attacks but restrict the growth of the ideology that caused the attacks in the first place. This is not a job for Republicans and Democrats, it is a job for adults. This is not a problem that will evanese into the wind with the conclusion of the Bush presidency.

Many interesting political things occur in Florida, it's gotta be the sun. Rick is either unaware that Bill Clinton was in office in 1994, and that Cheney was certainly not his Secretary of Defense, or is willing to play fast and loose with history.

If Rick's ancestors did not fight in the Civil War it is inappropriate for him to espouse anti-slavery positions. The fact that his children have fought in Iraq is commendable of his children but gives Rick no moral platform to stand upon and is frankly a despicable low blow in terms of political argument. It is noteworthy that he trots out this point, in an attempt to gain the moral high ground, without even an inkling of the previous poster's history. A perusal of the forum's archives would have revealed that the previous poster has lost loved ones in the conflict, but is not reduced to wearing it on his sleeve to make cheap political points.

Invading countries is, in fact, in our job description. We have a whole branch of the service dedicated to just such propositions. They fly the colors of the United States Marine Corps. In recent memory they, and the other armed forces of the US, have invaded the whole continent of Europe in an effort to expunge a war nation that had not even attacked America. It was the second time in the century it was found necessary to invade European countries. Earlier in the same century it was found necessary to invade Mexico, albeit in such an ineffective fashion that we have the continuing problems of the day. Later in the century it was found on several occasions to invade Korea, Cambodia, Grenada, and Panama as well. Some peoples of those countries have the quaint notion that without US invasion their life would be radically different today, if they had life at all.

The only flag I prefer to wave has 50 stars on it with thirteen stripes. The ensign I most prefer to fly is emblazoned with the words, "Don't Tread on Me". If there are more Republicans than Democrats under that standard it is not material to me, there is plenty of room for all. I will say that re-hashing statements of 1994, while interesting historically, does little or nothing to provide a clarion to future action. Remembering the past, I will live in the present with a desire to support those who will ensure the future is not a repeat of the past. Those who think the world is the same as it was in 1994 will not receive that support.

[Rickm505]

Sailaway...Are you posting while Drinking, or just 1/2 asleep? 1994 was Cheney's interview, regardless of who was in the whitehouse.
You have put yourself in a position to defend an administration that:

1.) is disabling our constitution.
2.) alienating all of our allies
3.) dividing the people who elected them
4.) having the distinction of being the only oil using country that has to invade to get oil.
5.) taking away your constitutional rights.
Taking away your constitutional rights... does that mean anything to you? I will fight to the death to defend my rights and you are just giving yours away and praising the guys who are doing it. It's coming out now that a good portion of our government threatened to resign over that spying executive order. Unfortunately you can't just give your rights away, my rights go out the window as well.

You seem to be well informed so what's left? You must be a closet communist, or you're just Crazy. Either way ..... you Sailaway are an enemy of the American People.

Leave my rights alone