Democrats versus Republicans

[sck5]

the only thing japanese about those cars (I have jap cars too, but mine is made in Windsor Ont. just over the border and my wife's is made here) is the design of the car and the senior management of the company. factory, labor, parts, everything is north american on both cars.

Our guys in Detroit have run their companies into the ground and if they wonder why they need a bailout they should just look in the mirror. They made bad business decisions and are paying the cost.

[camaraderie]

The excesses of unions are like the excesses of greedy senior management. For every story like CP's where workers unions caused the factory to close...there's another where management stripped and shipped the company overseas or gutted the assets for personal gain leaving thousands without a job. Unions are generally counter-productive for those they serve over the long run in my view. But so are corp execs/boards who believe that ONLY the short term bottom line counts and do not have an appreciation for their responsibilities to their workers and the country. As union power has waned, corporate power has grown. Neither is good for the country.

[serenity4u2]

How ever soooooooooooo tru...... Unions destroy many companies.. Keeps paying into them and watch your job disappear.. Unions destroyed the US auto industry... Even this Marine buys Japanese (supports US workers)- screw the unions... All Japanese cars are assembled in the USA- honda does have a SAmall plant in Canada... I do not see Jap makers begging for a bail out- maybe its b/c us patriotic USMarines buy Honda's.. Still driving my 1986 Honda Civic CRX HF 300K Plus miles...

I did change the tires, clutch and had the brakes resurfaced...

[sailaway21]

I'm not sure that advertising that you drive a 22 year old car is going to promote the idea that you've your finger on the pulse of the American auto industry. (g)

[PBzeer]

One has to wonder how long the American people will keep sending people to Washington who serve themselves first, the country second. As Reagan said, "Government is not the solution to our problem, it is the problem.". It has insinuated itself so deeply into our everyday lives, that every problem we face requires government intervention.

There is nothing in the Constitution that mandates, requires or implies that government be a safety net. But, in allowing, and even encouraging it to be one, we have replaced common sense with government regulation. And in the process, have allowed it to be the arbitrator of personal behavior.

The simple is made complex, necessitating ever growing layers of bureaucracy where none are needed. Nowhere is this more evident than in the tax code. We hear phrases such as "fair share", yet there is nothing fair in a progressive tax structure. Those who pay a higher percentage of their wages in taxes, receive no higher benefit from those payments. If "Fair" is the objective, than it should be a flat tax, no exemptions other than size of family, above a certain income level.

Since the ratification of the 16th Amendment (1913), the tax code has gone from 400 pages to 66,498 pages. That's beyond absurd. It's a labyrinth of exemptions, deductions and loopholes designed to appease various special interests. A flat tax reduces that to one page. The tax code should be a means of generating revenue, not a modifier of behavior, which is what the extra 66,497 extra pages is all about.

[sailingdog]

Very well said.

Originally Posted by PBzeer

One has to wonder how long the American people will keep sending people to Washington who serve themselves first, the country second. As Reagan said, "Government is not the solution to our problem, it is the problem.". It has insinuated itself so deeply into our everyday lives, that every problem we face requires government intervention.

There is nothing in the Constitution that mandates, requires or implies that government be a safety net. But, in allowing, and even encouraging it to be one, we have replaced common sense with government regulation. And in the process, have allowed it to be the arbitrator of personal behavior.

The simple is made complex, necessitating ever growing layers of bureaucracy where none are needed. Nowhere is this more evident than in the tax code. We hear phrases such as "fair share", yet there is nothing fair in a progressive tax structure. Those who pay a higher percentage of their wages in taxes, receive no higher benefit from those payments. If "Fair" is the objective, than it should be a flat tax, no exemptions other than size of family, above a certain income level.

Since the ratification of the 16th Amendment (1913), the tax code has gone from 400 pages to 66,498 pages. That's beyond absurd. It's a labyrinth of exemptions, deductions and loopholes designed to appease various special interests. A flat tax reduces that to one page. The tax code should be a means of generating revenue, not a modifier of behavior, which is what the extra 66,497 extra pages is all about.

[wind_magic]

It'll be interesting to see what happens when we finally have to monetize all of this debt. Someday that will have to happen. It isn't a question of if, but when. In my lifetime ? I think so. I think relatively soon, years, decade, two, maybe three. Current borrowing is unsustainable, and at some point something major is going to happen and the government will have to hit the reset button to fix it.

The debt has gone beyond the point where anyone can imagine stopping it's growth, fixing it, etc. The game now is do what you can before the world ends, we have gotten to a point in this country where the $us has a limited lifetime ahead of it, it's only a question of when the day comes. I don't think anybody can stop it.

Edit - I forgot to make this political - The greatest irony of all of this to me is that Democrats are so willing to win the battle and lose the war when it comes to the debt, but they seem perfectly willing to give Republicans everything they want in the end. I don't understand why they would do that.

[cardiacpaul]

a couple of points.

"Do not see the Jap car industry begging for Federal handouts? Do ya? NOPE...."

Actually, the Honda goldwing plant in Marysville is closing.
Why?
One reason, County and state officials didn't renew the property tax abatements that have been in place since 1980, Goldwings will be produced in Japan. Employees can "transfer" to Auto production facilites... funny, The state and county just renewed all tax abatements and job credits for the auto plant.

Alabama has a thriving auto assembly industry, Hyundai, Honda, toyota & MB all have plants there. Concern? Not a single one pays any state, county, or local property taxes, and each one gets federal dollars for "increasing employment based on targets"... The only fly in the oinment is that none of the companies have met those hiring goals, and none have paid back any of the funds forwarded to them.

Mississippi paid toyota to locate a plant there. 323.9 million, not including infrastructure. (that the state also paid for)
Will Toyota's 'way' find favor with its workers? | clarionledger.com | The Clarion-Ledger

"the design of the car and the senior management of the company.
factory, labor, parts, everything is north american on both cars."
One might want to take a look at "senior management".
I worked for a very large firm (NEC) and NO member of senior management...read decision makers, money spenders, if it needed a PO an "incountry" fellow had to sign off, any hiring manager, production supervisor was US born, and darn few "middle managers.

If you own a mazda, the design center in california was head up by a guy from conn. until he left in august 2008 to head up the design dept at Tesla due to "differences in management style and artistic vision." Its now run by a "incountry" fellow.

Take a gander at any new honda, subaru, toyota, et al. notice on the sticker what percentage of "US parts" make up the content. it ain't much.

then, take into consideration this company, Alcoa-Fujikura (Now AFL automotive)
They hold the contract to build wiring harnesses for Ford, Mazda, and PACCAR (KW & Peterbuilt trucks)

Evey wiring harness has "Made in America" on the bag, or on a tag. Good deal, right?
Well, thanks you NAFTA.
The wire comes from Alcoa/Dixie, gets shipped to mexico where the harnesses are assembled and put into huge containers. These containers are then shipped to Del Rio Texas, where "final assembly" takes place.
Final assembly consists of taking the harness out of the wire basket, placing them in plastic bags, put in the Made in America tag, then sealing the bag. Voila, Made in America.
For products to be sent to auto assembly plants the wire baskets are unloaded, Made in America tag is affixed, then dumped into another container palletized, shrinkwrapped, and loaded on to trucks.
Voila, final assembly, Made in America.

I'm sure its all Bushs fault too.

[PBzeer]

Nothing CAN change, as long as people continue to live a lifestyle based on credit. The generational shift between the WWII generation and the Boomers is one built largely on credit, as the need for instant gratification replaced the plan and save mentality of earlier times.

When you look back through history, every dominant Western nation has eventually succumbed to the excesses brought on by a lowering of moral standards. By the exaltation of man and the fulfillment of his desires as the ultimate sophistication. And when you abandon the traditions and values that make such exaltation and fulfillment possible, then the slide back down has begun.

[wind_magic]

Originally Posted by PBzeer

Nothing CAN change, as long as people continue to live a lifestyle based on credit. The generational shift between the WWII generation and the Boomers is one built largely on credit, as the need for instant gratification replaced the plan and save mentality of earlier times.

When you look back through history, every dominant Western nation has eventually succumbed to the excesses brought on by a lowering of moral standards. By the exaltation of man and the fulfillment of his desires as the ultimate sophistication. And when you abandon the traditions and values that make such exaltation and fulfillment possible, then the slide back down has begun.

In that regard, monetizing the debt would be great for young people. Oh, you spent your whole life working to save up that million $us ? Well, let's see how long that lasts you when we quadruple the price of a burrito.

It doesn't matter for young people, their salaries just quadruple and they get the same number of burritos for an hour's wage as they always did.