Democrats versus Republicans

[chucklesR]

Originally Posted by sck5

Sure, Bill Gates should have the same tax rate I do. Thats really fair.

Absolutely, or do you WORK any LESS for your money? Yeah, I thought so.
Say effort, same percentage of 'take'.

Tell me SCK, how EXACTLY is that not the american way?

Where exactly does the 'you make more so you should pay a higher percentage' come from?

I don't cost any more than you, why the hell should I pay more?

[erps]

Where exactly does the 'you make more so you should pay a higher percentage' come from?

I don't cost any more than you, why the hell should I pay more?
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I'm pretty sure that the guvmint issues the high tax bracket guys a teleporter so they don't have to commute on the public highways. I'm thinking about getting a third job, so maybe I can get a teleporter too.

[wind_magic]

Originally Posted by erps

I'm pretty sure that the guvmint issues the high tax bracket guys a teleporter so they don't have to commute on the public highways. I'm thinking about getting a third job, so maybe I can get a teleporter too.

High income companies probably wouldn't mind paying more in taxes if they didn't get treated like crap all the time too. They are like Rodney Dangerfield, doesn't matter what they do, they get no respect.

[sck5]

Bill Gates works 10 billion times harder than anyone else?

Give me a break.

And those guys on Wall St. walking away with $30 million. Did THEY work harder than the rest of us?

Maybe it was because they were so successful at what they do.

[sck5]

On a more philosophical note, there seems to be the implicit assumption that people who make more money do it solely on the basis of their own labor.

This is not true. While it may be true at lower levels of income, when we get into millionaires we are talking about people who only make as much as they do because they are fortunate enough to live and work in the USA. They are taking advantage of our massive past investments in infrastructure and education and laws and institutions to make the huge amounts of money they do.

Certainly they deserve to get rich. Dont get me wrong. But at the same time it is perfectly reasonable to ask them to contribute to the general good so that future generations can have the same opportunity they did.

Those of you who think the government only ever wastes money wont agree with this. On the other hand, I bet all of you

- drive on roads
- went to school
- looked at an aid to navigation every now and then
- listened to a weather report

etc. etc.

The list can go on and on. The point is that it wouldnt be possible to become incredibly rich if we hadnt made all of the public investments we have made through history. And those who benefit from them to get rich ought not complain when they are asked to help maintain them.

Ask yourself this - Would Bill Gates have been able to get as rich as he did if he had lived and worked in the Central African Republic? Of course not. It is because he lives HERE and can take advantage of all that the US has.

Even HE thinks he should pay more taxes. So why dont you?

[PBzeer]

The question is:

Why is it unfair for everyone to pay an equal percentage?

It's really a very simple question, and has nothing to do with effort, risk, investment, education, or anything else.

[PBzeer]

Why should I care what Bill Gates thinks I should do? Do you think he cares about what I think HE should do?

Just what is meant by fair? Most people I know, think it means impartial, even, unbiased, equitable. Since we all have the same access to public infrastructure, why should we not all pay an equal percentage in taxes to support it? Actually, if one wanted to be truely fair, no one would pay more than what the least amount paid is.

[US27inKS]

Originally Posted by sck5

Sure, Bill Gates should have the same tax rate I do. Thats really fair.

Yes, he should have the same tax rate you do, and yes that really is fair.

I'll put a few numbers together for you. Our Gross Domestic Product is 14.312 Trillion dollars. The federal government budget is almost exactly 20% of that. So if every working person, corporation, and small business mailed in a check for 20% of their earnings each year the government could operate in exactly the same horrible fashion it does today. That takes care of income tax, medicare, social security, all of it.

So if a person making 60K per year had a flat tax of 20%, you would pay 12K per year. I'll bet you pay a higher percentage than that now.

Bill Gates on the other hand makes a bit more than 60K. I had a hard time finding an exact figure. I saw everything from 7.8 Billion per year to a laughable 616,000 "official" salary in newsweek. More likely is 178 Million in stock dividends. So $178,000,000 x 20% is a paltry $35,600,000.

Bill Gates would be paying 2967 times the taxes that someone making 60K per year, but I doubt he would use any more (if not less) government services.

I seriously doubt that Bill Gates paid 20% taxes, because he has teams of accountants and lawyers to exploit all of the loopholes they can.

Now, are you SURE you don't want to pay the same tax rate as Bill Gates?

[erps]

Even HE thinks he should pay more taxes. So why dont you?

Because, I don't want anyone requiring me to pay more than my fair share, so I"m not willing to tell someone else to pay more than their fair share. My gut instinct is that a flat tax rate is more fair and with it, the more you make, the more you pay.

[sck5]

You actually think Bill Gates hasnt used more government services than anyone else? Thats just ridiculous. He couldnt make his fortune without all of the workers and all of the infrastructure of the USA. We taxpayers paid for the education of those workers and built the infrastructure with our money.

I dont grudge him a fortune but he DID make more use of the past investments of the government than I did. All I am saying is that if he does that then it is only fair for him to contribute to keep the opportunity he had available for the future Bill Gates in this country.

He agrees with me on that. He thinks it is his moral obligation to give back to the country that gave so much to him. He is under no illusion that it was only his own personal labor that made him rich.

That last is kind of laughable. Nobody makes billions only with their own labor. They pretty much only do it in the USA because of what we have created here.

And US27 is probably right that his accountants make sure his tax rate is even less than mine.