Bill Gates works 10 billion times harder than anyone else?
Give me a break.
And those guys on Wall St. walking away with $30 million. Did THEY work harder than the rest of us?
Maybe it was because they were so successful at what they do.
Maybe it was because they were so successful at what they do
I truly hope so. I hope I make what I make because I'm successful.
It helps me to carry the load for smucks that can't carry their own load.
We we talk about 'using' or 'costing' more - no Bill Gates doesn't use more as an individual than any other person. As an individual - it is the individual who is taxed.
If you really want to go for the GROSS cost of Bill Gates, Windows, et. al. - we'd be paying him for the services and productivity and technology he has brought us, not the other way around.
I truly hope taxes get based on success, worth and VALUE. Less VALUE in, more taxes out - let's chant that a while.
You actually think Bill Gates hasnt used more government services than anyone else? Thats just ridiculous. He couldnt make his fortune without all of the workers and all of the infrastructure of the USA. We taxpayers paid for the education of those workers and built the infrastructure with our money.
Actually, if you look at the numbers provided by US27, it's more likely that it was paid for with Bill's money.
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Ray
S.V. Nikko
1983 Fraser 41
La Conner, WA
And just where, sck5, do you think those workers get their money to pay their taxes that support the infrastructure that makes it possible to make the money he makes from their labor and the country's infrastructure? Your contention is so fatuous it's laughable. And as Chuck pointed out, we are talking personal taxes, not corporate. So once, again mixing apples and oranges fails to make your point.
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John
Ontario 32 - Aria
Free, is the heart, that lives not, in fear.
Full, is the spirit, that thinks not, of falling.
True, is the soul, that hesitates not, to give.
Alive, is the one, that believes, in love. JCP
Here is an experiment I think could answer the question about taxes and fairness ..
This country didn't always have an income tax. I don't know what year it was that it was started, I knew at one time but I don't remember now, I seem to remember it was in reaction to a war or something.
Anyway, I think it is reasonable to assume that whatever the first income tax was, that's probably what people thought was "fair" before piling a bunch of agendas and garbage on top of it.
I don't know what that first income tax in this country was, I haven't looked yet, but if someone knows or finds out please post because I would be willing to bet whatever they did that first time was what everybody thought was equitable.
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What are you pretending not to know ?
Actually, if you look at the numbers provided by US27, it's more likely that it was paid for with Bill's money.
Actually, that wasn't really the point. SCK doesn't think we should pay the same tax rate as bill gates. I'm saying that under the current system, the average american pays a higher rate than the very rich simply because the system was designed to benefit the rich while looking like it benefits the poor. He seems to think that a flat tax rate would be unfair because the rich should pay a higher rate than him. Simply putting the very rich under a higher tax bracket only makes people who are bad at math vote for politicians who promise to tax the rich and give to the poor. It has never made the rich pay more taxes nor has it made the poor less poor. The only thing is has done is create an industry of accountants who advise the rich on how to exploit the loopholes left for them by the same politicians who got elected on a tax the rich - give to the poor promise.
SCK needs to look at one thing, and one thing only. Obama's tax plan will bring in at LEAST 700 Billion in increased revenue per year. That money will come from somewhere. The owner of the grocery store chain or the gas station isn't going to take home less pay, he'll just increase the margins on his products to cover the additional taxes. It's not the very rich in this country who buy the majority of groceries and gas, it's 95% of americans Obama promises to be helping.
In reference to my post above, I found a site that has information about the first U.S. income tax.
Quote:
In 1862, in order to support the Civil War effort, Congress enacted the nation's first income tax law. It was a forerunner of our modern income tax in that it was based on the principles of graduated, or progressive, taxation and of withholding income at the source. During the Civil War, a person earning from $600 to $10,000 per year paid tax at the rate of 3%. Those with incomes of more than $10,000 paid taxes at a higher rate. Additional sales and excise taxes were added, and an “inheritance” tax also made its debut. In 1866, internal revenue collections reached their highest point in the nation's 90-year history—more than $310 million, an amount not reached again until 1911.
So apparently what people thought was equitable when they first put the income tax in place was that everyone who wasn't mega-rich should pay 3%, in essence that everyone paid their fair percentage share. The code was progressive in that anyone who earned over 10k$us a year paid more, but 10k$us in 1862 dollars, I don't know what that is but it was probably a hell of a lot. And apparently the poor earning less than 600$us year paid nothing.
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What are you pretending not to know ?
Last edited by wind_magic : 09-22-2008 at 06:59 PM.
I believe it was 1913, with two rates and only 400 pages of tax code. The present code is 66,498 pages. Federal withholding began in 1943, preceded by withholding for Social Security in 1935.
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John
Ontario 32 - Aria
Free, is the heart, that lives not, in fear.
Full, is the spirit, that thinks not, of falling.
True, is the soul, that hesitates not, to give.
Alive, is the one, that believes, in love. JCP
windy, that tax was suspending soon after, and not begun again until the passage of the 16th amendment in 1913.
__________________
John
Ontario 32 - Aria
Free, is the heart, that lives not, in fear.
Full, is the spirit, that thinks not, of falling.
True, is the soul, that hesitates not, to give.
Alive, is the one, that believes, in love. JCP
In 1862, in order to support the Civil War effort, Congress enacted the nation's first income tax law. It was a forerunner of our modern income tax in that it was based on the principles of graduated, or progressive, taxation and of withholding income at the source. During the Civil War, a person earning from $600 to $10,000 per year paid tax at the rate of 3%. Those with incomes of more than $10,000 paid taxes at a higher rate. Additional sales and excise taxes were added, and an “inheritance” tax also made its debut. In 1866, internal revenue collections reached their highest point in the nation's 90-year history—more than $310 million, an amount not reached again until 1911.
600$us in 1892 $us = 12324.99$us in 2007 $us
10k$us in 1892 $us = 205416.47$us in 2007 $us
So to use today's money, the first income tax didn't charge you anything if you made under 12324.99$us/year, and then it went to 3% from that number up to 205416.47$us/year, and then it went up from there.
So everybody paid the same, mostly.
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What are you pretending not to know ?
John USYacht 27 "Cora Lee"
