Democrats versus Republicans

[US27inKS]

I found an interesting article about FDR's new deal, just in time for Obama's new deal. All of this sounds way too familiar lately.

It has been 70 years since Franklin Delano Roosevelt launched his New Deal in an effort to banish the Great Depression of the 1930s -- perhaps the most important economic event in American history. The New Deal was controversial then, and it's still controversial, because it failed to resolve the most important problem of the era: chronic unemployment that averaged 17 percent.

Newsweek columnist Robert Samuelson acknowledged that if World War II hadn't come along, America might have stumbled through many more years of double-digit unemployment. Samuelson, however, is among those who give FDR high marks for handling the political crisis of the 1930s, the worst political crisis this country has faced since the Civil War.

How can that be? Consider just a few of FDR's policies. The New Deal tripled federal taxes between 1933 and 1940 -- excise taxes, personal income taxes, inheritance taxes, corporate income taxes, dividend taxes, excess profits taxes all went up, and FDR introduced an undistributed profits tax. A number of New Deal laws, including some 700 industrial cartel codes, made it more expensive for employers to hire people, and this discouraged hiring.

Frequent changes in the tax laws plus FDR's anti-business rhetoric ("economic royalists") discouraged people from making investments essential for growth and jobs. New Deal securities laws made it harder for employers to raise capital. FDR issued antitrust lawsuits against some 150 employers and companies, making it harder for them to focus on business. FDR signed a law ordering the break-up of America's strongest banks, with the lowest failure rates. New Deal farm policies destroyed food -- 10 million acres of crops and 6 million farm animals -- thereby wiping out farm jobs and forcing food prices above market levels for 100 million American consumers.

[PBzeer]

The worst part of talking about taxes is that it assumes we have a revenue problem, when actually, we have a spending problem. Though 2008 earmarks only represent $17.2 billion, it's the obvious place to start. Then we should start looking at subsidies. Once that is done, then a complete review of all federal budget items should begin. We should also have a line item veto, unless Congress ceases piggyback on appropriation bills.

If we don't control spending, and the culture that approves it, things will not get better. Change won't happen overnight, nor will it come easy. But if all those who are so concerned about the world they leave for their children don't start telling their representatives that enough is enough, it won't even begin.

[camaraderie]

On television today a Democratic operative pointed out that when Obama holds a rally 25-30,000 people show up, whereas when McCain holds one he only draws 10-15,000.

The Republican spokesman replied, "That's because McCain's supporters are at work."

[PBzeer]

cam - how can you post such a baseless smear?

[sailaway21]

Originally Posted by sck5

On a more philosophical note, there seems to be the implicit assumption that people who make more money do it solely on the basis of their own labor.

This is not true. While it may be true at lower levels of income, when we get into millionaires we are talking about people who only make as much as they do because they are fortunate enough to live and work in the USA. They are taking advantage of our massive past investments in infrastructure and education and laws and institutions to make the huge amounts of money they do.

Certainly they deserve to get rich. Dont get me wrong. But at the same time it is perfectly reasonable to ask them to contribute to the general good so that future generations can have the same opportunity they did.

Those of you who think the government only ever wastes money wont agree with this. On the other hand, I bet all of you

- drive on roads
- went to school
- looked at an aid to navigation every now and then
- listened to a weather report

etc. etc.

The list can go on and on. The point is that it wouldnt be possible to become incredibly rich if we hadnt made all of the public investments we have made through history. And those who benefit from them to get rich ought not complain when they are asked to help maintain them.

Ask yourself this - Would Bill Gates have been able to get as rich as he did if he had lived and worked in the Central African Republic? Of course not. It is because he lives HERE and can take advantage of all that the US has.

Even HE thinks he should pay more taxes. So why dont you?

I'm so glad that I took Rick and sck5 off of my ignore list. Larry the Cable Guy has got nothing on them when it comes to consistently hilarious comments.

Let's see, Bill Gates dropped out of Harvard and worked in his garage to come up with what is now Microsoft. I'm not sure how much driving he did but I'd wager that the public highways have benefited the average truck driver far more than they have the average computer software designer. so bill didn't need the schools or the roads, and I'll bet he never owned a boat while on the path to riches. I'll have to grant you that he probably listened to a weather forecast along the way and, based upon it's accuracy, chalked it up to being provided by the same people who run the post office.

You just cannot make this stuff up! sck5 should wake up and smell the coffee. The American government wouldn't have gotten to where it's at without Bill Gates, not vice-versa, you've as usual got it all backwards. Typical liberal thinking though. In essence, Bill Gates built those roads and bought those buoys-without him they wouldn't be there or, worse, you might have had to pay for them yourself. How strange would that have been? A lib paying for something instead of expecting the government to do so with other people's money. The mere thought boggles the mind.

Please do inform us on how there is just nowhere else in the world where Bill Gates could have achieved what he did. I'm sure he'd be frying tortillas for a living had he been born in Mexico, right?

[PBzeer]

Sitting here tonight, I find myself wondering why anyone would want Washington to take care of them. Doesn't matter if it's been Dems or Reps in charge, the history is not one to inspire confidence that they are up to the task. In point of fact, it's just the opposite.

How can anyone think that some politician who is only aware of you if you write them at least a 4 figure check, would have your best interests at heart? As Hillary famously said, it requires a willful suspension of belief.

We are constantly told of how bad Bush is, as evidenced by his approval numbers, yet, all indications are that the Congress that has even lower numbers, will not only return, but grow. Where's the sense in that?

We are told we have a dire financial crisis that needs immediate response, and they argue over issues not directly a part of the problem we are told we are fixing. No, it's more important to score political points and piggyback a bunch of other stuff that wouldn't get passed on it's own.

Meanwhile, everybody is pointing fingers at everybody but themselves, when they are all part of the problem.

Ya'll wanna trust that bunch with taking care of ya, more power to ya. But pardon me if I don't find the idea very appealing.

[danjarch]

To point out an often missed point concerning businessmen and taxes. If you run a business you get hit left and right with taxes. Occupational licenses, Multiple auto registrations and lots of gas tax on multiple vehicules, Then every utility has it's own taxs, and these are only a few.

Bill gates has pratically supsidised hundreds of back woods country dweller's telephone service just with the taxes microsoft has paid on it's phone bill.

All those expensive bomb sniffing machine in the airports are largely thanks to the millions of business travelers and the taxes they pay. All those "visit our state" comercials that you see, Hotel taxes.

Rent a piece of equipment, plan to hold a tent sale, pull a building permit, yearly fire inspection, just a few bucks if you please. Higher property taxes but the city doesn't pick up your garbage or yard waste. Oh don't forget the taxes on your liability policy.

It goes on, and on. You haven't even imagined all the different taxes that really exist until you've run a business for a bit.

[PBzeer]

Hard to remember that this country started as a tax revolt.

[US27inKS]

My personal favorite tax is the "stormwater removal" bill that I get every month for $38.00. I called the city and asked what I was getting for my 38 bucks. The clerk explained that it was for maintenance of the stormater drains and cleaning out gutters etc. I told her that there are no curbs on my street, and I have a ditch that I am required to mow or I will get a fine from codes enforcement. The only thing she could say was "oh, well you still have to pay it." If I didn't pay it, the city will come and remove the dumpster that I pay $55 a month for.

[PBzeer]

As they say, we get the government we pay for