Democrats versus Republicans

[PBzeer]

Transportation accounts for 70% of our oil usage. There are private companies that would just love to sink some of their money into new drilling and refining. Which would, surprise, create a whole bunch of well paying jobs. We may be able to accomadate our personal travel such as to and from work or the store with electric or other alternative means, but you aren't going to move the freight that is the result of production that way.

Going from internal combustion to alternate fuel forms, for the foreseeable future is not a case of going from the horse and buggy to the automobile. Rather it is going back to the horse and buggy.

The only entities that exist to give people jobs, without any concern of profitability are government jobs. Private business has to make a profit,or else it doesn't exist. Business doesn't exist to give people jobs, it exists to make a profit for the person or group that risk their capital to create it, to fill a need that is evidenced by demand for a product or service. Without those businesses that take those risks, and create those jobs, there is no one to pay the taxes that make government possible. Business can exist without government, government can not exist with business.

[sck5]

"How many charts, graphs and facts do you have to have shoved in your face before you finally understand how tax rates and revenue work?"

Chuck I love it when you talk dirty. But seriously, I made two factually based points, not really relying on any interpretation, analysis or faith based leaps.

Check out the graphs linked below - You can see that spending only ever goes up which was my first point. You can also see that tax revenue also goes up except when the Repubs enact large tax cuts. That was my second point.

Here is federal revenue as charted by the Heritage foundation

Google Image Result for http://www.heritage.org/research/features/budgetchartbook/images/fed-rev-spend-2008-boc-R2-Federal-Government-Tax-Revenue.gif

Here is federal spending also from Heritage

Google Image Result for http://www.heritage.org/research/features/BudgetChartBook/images/fed-rev-spend-2008-boc-S5-Federal-Spending-Grew-Nine-Times.gif

I picked a conservative source for the charts but you can look it up anywhere else and get the same info. I am not making it up and you can say what you like but the fact remain

- neither party cuts spending no matter what claims they make

- one party cuts taxes (and so has to borrow) while the other raises taxes to pay for what they spend

In other words, the popular perception of "tax and spend" vs. "borrow and spend" is pretty accurate.

[PBzeer]

Since you believe in tax and spend sck5, if it's not too personal of a question, could you tell us how much above your yearly tax obligation you remit to the IRS? (yes, that is an option)

[Joel73]

Hey guys... if you're in the Raleigh area this Thursday then stop by and have a beer with us! The debate will be on the big screen before the bands start.

More info here: Local Band, Local Beer, National Politics | New Raleigh, NC

[PBzeer]

Wish I could be there. Who knows, I might find somebody that could name me something Obama's actually done ..... besides run for office and talk

[SailKing1]

Actually Sck they do cut spending, you just have to understand how it works. I project that the expenses this year to run the government, (military, SS, Medicare, .....) pay all the entitlements, and do all those things I promised I would do will equal $???????????. But if I come in under that at the end of the year, Well, I cut spending. It's called smoke and mirrors. Wish I could run my company that way. Wait, I can, It's called a loss and a tax deduction.

[PBzeer]

You may not like where this comes from, or who wrote it, but it's well worth reading ..... no matter what you're political bent.

Right Wing Nut House » FAITH OF OUR FATHERS

[jager]

I think you guys need to relax and go sailing...

BTW, I just love the raise the flag and send in the marines, ********. John Wayne is dead and he wasn't a veteran anyway. Life isn't a f**king movie or an episode of 24. Read something about counter insurgency, rent and watch "The Battle for Algiers"....this is asymetric warfare...it is as different as the two types of 'chutes are.

jager

[AboardIndigo]

Originally Posted by Joel73

Hey guys... if you're in the Raleigh area this Thursday then stop by and have a beer with us! The debate will be on the big screen before the bands start.

More info here: Local Band, Local Beer, National Politics | New Raleigh, NC

Uh, Joel...

...I respect what you folks are trying to do, and don't really have a political affiliation, but to the casual viewer, message receiver, whatever, that advertisement looks like a no parking, no standing, no whatever sign (you're against whatever is behind the red bar that's across Obama).

Don't know who came up with that sign, but it's got bad mojo.

[tdw]

Originally Posted by poopdeckpappy

either way, we dodged a bullet........for now

You may well be correct and the more I think about this the more I wonder if that really is the case. I'm really wondering why it is, that all of a sudden action , no matter what action that may be, is necessary.

'Marry in haste ? Repent at leisure ?'

This crisis has been simmering away for nearly a year now and through it all its been steady as she goes, no need to worry. Fundamentals are good. Then all of sudden when it looks like the big end of town is going down the drain its all go.

'When in danger or in doubt , run in circles scream and shout.'

To me it is symptomatic of this administration. Looking more and more like a startled rabbit Bush reacts with panic. Why in heavens name if this is as big a crisis as it seems to be can't a bit of time be taken to scrutunise the package and fine tune as necessary.

From a cursory examination of the thing it really does seem to be completely one sided. Big end of town gets bailed out, taxpayer gets the bill and if and when things return to something approaching normality life for the big end will go on as before with no real compensation flowing back to aforementioned taxpayer.

But its all too important to have a quiet think about it. Gotta rush, Gotta run. Cos maybe just maybe if everyone did pause to reflect they would realise that the package is a turd sandwich and a very expensive turd sandwich at that.

It really is corporate socialism run riot.

As said, symptomatic of this administration. Might I remind you (collective you I mean ) that a lot of voices were raised suggesting the unseemly rush to invade Iraq should have been given some more considered thought but of course getting the "mission accomplished" was all important.

The lunatic is in the hall
The lunatics are in my hall
The paper holds their folded faces to the floor
And every day the paper boy brings more
And if the dam breaks open many years too soon
And if there is no room upon the hill
And if your head explodes with dark forbodings too
I'll see you on the dark side of the moon

Not even my favourite Pink Floyd album but that just popped into my head.

(not that this is likely to happen cos I'm sure that once congress has had their two days off , the bill will be re presented tomorrow and passed.)