Democrats versus Republicans

[wind_magic]

Originally Posted by SailorMitch

THe Repubs have some soul searching to do if they want to ensure a future where the party is relevant. the conservative "base" is small to begin with and shrinking.

I agree that the Republicans got their ass kicked in this election, but it's way too early to be calling Republicans out like this election was some kind of a come to Jesus moment. Lest we forget, since 1981 we've had exactly one Democratic President, Bill Clinton, and three Republican Presidents who together served five terms. I was talking to some young people a few weeks ago and other than Clinton they had never known a Democratic President, they barely even knew who Carter was. Just four years ago when Democrats lost another election the same things were said about the Democratic party, that it was losing it's relevance, that it had lost it's way - funny what a war and a market crash will do for your prospects. I too think that Republicans have a lot of work to do, they've lost touch with their conservative roots, but I think it's silly to think that Republicans have suddenly become obsolete. Seriously, we've had record deficits, broke new records in debt, lost half the price of the stock market, had a housing crisis, the debt markets froze and required an 800 billion $us bailout that Republicans proposed, we've been at war in two countries for about 8 years, and Democrats put up a wonderful candidate ... and Democrats won the election by, what, 6 points ? I think it's a little early for last rites.

I think it's wise to see this for what it is, and believe me I'm no champion of Republicans, I'm just being real here - Obama is a great choice for Democrats, I thought so when he spoke at the Democratic convention in 2004 that he was the guy who should be running instead of Kerry, but if it weren't for the tail winds that Democrats had in this election you have to wonder how close it would have been. This election was about Obama, but it was also at least as much about Bush as it was Democrats, Obama said it himself, America wanted something different - that was Obama's whole platform. This isn't the end of the Republican party, this is a chance for Democrats, a second chance I wasn't so sure they were going to get 4 years ago. This is a chance for Democrats to do something besides complain about George W. Bush, and Democrats would be wise to make the most of it, because come January there's nobody left to blame but Democrats. Blaming Bush for problems after he's left office is going to work for like 5 minutes before it starts to wear really thin with the public, especially after expectations have been raised so high.

[SailorMitch]

Originally Posted by PBzeer

I seem to recall similar sentiments being expressed in '64 Mitch.

This has all been said before, PBZ. it runs in cycles, and the Dems are having their day now. It's up to them to produce now or face the music of a very fickle electorate in 2010. That's how the game is played. Hopefully Obama et al will have better luck than the repubs had in the last 8 years.

[SailorMitch]

[quote=wind_magic;397163]I too think that Republicans have a lot of work to do, they've lost touch with their conservative roots, but I think it's silly to think that Republicans have suddenly become obsolete. Seriously, we've had record deficits, broke new records in debt, lost half the price of the stock market, had a housing crisis, the debt markets froze and required an 800 billion $us bailout that Republicans proposed, we've been at war in two countries for about 8 years, and Democrats put up a wonderful candidate ... and Democrats won the election by, what, 6 points ? I think it's a little early for last rites.
quote]

Agreed, the spread should have been much larger. All the things you listed above happened on the Republican watch and they only lost by 6 or 7 points. They should be celebrating at how well they did.

the point is that the electorate is not static. The Dems took advantage of demographic shifts this time and won handily. McCain had to work to keep his base of all things. And the demographics are not increasing that base as fast as other groups are increasing. I have said on here several times "never under-estimate the ability of the DEmocrats to shoot themselves in the foot." Obama avoided that malady in the main, but now has to watch out for it each and every day.

Enough of this. I'm going to bed.

[sailaway21]

Originally Posted by tenuki

I miss small government, fiscally responsible republicans who were also socially compassionate and inclusive, I wish you guys would take back your party from the jesus freaks and fox/rush style haters. Unfortunately I think Sarah Palin is probably the future of your party. So sad.

Boy, are you clueless! You miss the small government Republicans, etc.. and then you attack the very Republicans who brought you those traits. You think these RINO's and compromisers, like John McCain "maverick", are the ones who brought you small government and fiscal responsibility? wow!

[sailaway21]

Originally Posted by tdw

Couple of observations (warning warning foreigner comment)

How much harm does the incumbant party do to its election chances by dismissing the outgoing administration ?

As far as McCain was concerned (or seemingly so from this distance) Bush and his fellow Republicans were as popular as a case of the pox.

That cannot have helped the 'down ticket races', surely ?

OK, so Bush was on the nose but McCain's 'maverick' status cannot have helped his party overall.

Batty,
You've hit upon a very important point that symbolized the futility of the McCain candidacy from the start. Abseny the presence of Huckabee, it's doubtful that McCain would have won the nomination. (And how good does corporate businessman Romney look now given the econ news?)

McCain was popular with the media because he was a maverick and constantly sticking his own party in the eye. They loved it when he webt against Republicans..showed character. Of course, the media fell out of love with him when he became the nominee. I mean, they probably still like him and all, but htere can be only one true love and McCain was never going to strip the media from the one true faith, Democrat/Liberalism.

McCain's hubris was in thinking that people would vote for a compromiser, a bridger, a builder of coalitions because the media hailed him for those traits. Faced with the choice between a liberal Republican and a Democrat, the voters will choose the real deal every time.

McCain's biggest mistake was in thinking that he could run to the middle and drag his base along. You need those middle voters, but they're the frosting, not the cake. Without a base you've no support or longevity..you're stuck with just the frosting.

Ironically, the best thing that could happen to the Republican party was this loss. A McCain victory would have erroneously signaled that it's OK to be a tax and spend Republican, just like GW Bush. Now the Reps have to look hard and deep to examine just what it is that they want to be the characteristics of a Republican.

There's a reason we don't elect Senators President; we perceive them as part of the Washington problem. Obama doesn't count; he's barely a Senator!

[PBzeer]

Heck, I'm still grappling with the concept of smaller,more fiscally responsible government providing cradle to grave entitlements, otherwise known as compassion.

[tenuki]

knee jerk reaction to key words, you are both my puppets!

Dance geezers, dance!

( 52% points is a big deal for Dems, they haven't seen that kinda of support since LBJ in '64, right? The Reps are used to seeing numbers in that range, but it something totally new to Dems)

[sailaway21]

Originally Posted by tenuki

knee jerk reaction to key words, you are both my puppets!

Dance geezers, dance!

( 52% points is a big deal for Dems, they haven't seen that kinda of support since LBJ in '64, right?)

correct-a-mundo!

[tenuki]

Originally Posted by PBzeer

Heck, I'm still grappling with the concept of smaller,more fiscally responsible government providing cradle to grave entitlements, otherwise known as compassion.

That is because you are caught in the logical fallacy of false generalization. Hope you find your way out of it soon.


ps: I love your Will Rodgers quote Sailaway.

[sailaway21]

Wow!,
I hope tomorrow is better than today. All day long, all I heard was how America has become more liberal, overnight! I guess they figure if they repeat it enough it will become true. (g) Quietly unnoticed was the big defeat homosexual marriage took in California.