Democrats versus Republicans

[RAGNAR]

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[RAGNAR]

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[cardiacpaul]

Second, I truly believe that even the most irresponsible wise up when they're up against reality. What did people do before the Nanny State?

do ya, unfortunatly, most of the windfall lottery millions (that go broke within 5 years say differently)

most of the pigs at the trough in the "dot bomb" would say differently too. I'm hear to tell ya, given 10.00 in the pocket today vs. putting it a savings account, I KNOW what the majority would do.

Get off "what did people do before the nanny state." arguement, it don't fly well.
Heres what people did, They lived on farms,milked cows, with gardens, with their parents, and grandparents, think... the waltons. that WAS the reality, that was the majority. "back in the day"... Of course, the life expenctancey was lower, construction materials were hard to come by, farm equipment was measured in real horses...

Third, I don't care if they don't wise up. The lives of others aren't here for the less willing to mooch off of. That's the nature of free societies, folks.

So, mister sink or swim,
lets say mom and or pops comes down with the big "c" word, whacha gunna do when the private pay insurance runs out, hmm? it will run out you know. According to you, screw 'em, not your fault they didn't plan for that. I guess you don't take second out on your home to help out, nosiree, you tell 'em good luck to ya, damn, that chemo's expensive. Must be your kids are never going to get hurt in an accident, or have to have long term care. Thats really going to suck for them, having to pay their own bills while they don't have a job, can't get work after the recovery, but I understand, its cuz they were too stoopid to plan for all that.
God, I want to see your portfolio.

Heres one to consider.
a fella works for a fortune 100 company. Over 10 yrs at that company, 25 years in the field. "Full" bene's, plus a 6 figure deal. Got it?
good, Heart attack number one.
not bad, insurance pays for all but 43,450.00
disability insurance kicks in, theres 1/2 salary for 6 months. good deal, all is good. except, employer tells guy, "you know, you should stay home". Ok, got it.
Ever try to get a job after a heart attack? hmm, thought not.
Oh, just for giggles, now, slap, boom bang, another heart attack, here you go, heres another bill for what the insurance company didn't pay, that'll be 38,400.00.

Did I forget the insurance? oh yea, cuz the guy ain't drawing a paycheck anymore, you get to go cobra, thats about 1000.00 per month. Need I keep going?

Tell me big guy have you had any rain in your life?

You have got to be kidding, are you truly for a "free society?" good, build your own fricken road, I hope you're good at telecom, 'cuz if you don't pay my prices, you ain't getting on the airwaves unless you buy your own bandwitdh.

Power? there wouldn't be any, hope you can run a stihl and know the difference between a poplar and a locust.
must be your kids can kill their own food. Did you ever take a medication? I'm kinda glad some of the drug companies got a couple of breaks to come up with some that I'm taking. Hey, thats not your fault, but thanks for paying your taxes.
be careful what you ask for. you may just get it and have to deal with the consequences.

[RAGNAR]

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[xort]

The issue of people spending all their savings from SS prematurely can be easily dealt with.

Continue to have a system where your pay is automatically deducted for SS, 7% & a 7% match. But instead of letting the gov't mismangae it put it into accounts similar to what most private employers have with a menu of choices.

"But too many people will invest in risky schemes and loose it all"...not if it is set up with limits. Restrict the types of accounts to the conservative end of the spectrum. Also put age restrictions on it. When you turn 35 you can't put SS money into the more aggressive funds and by 50 all the pre-existing funds have to be moved into conservative funds like money market or bond funds. You can still invest non-SS money any way you like. This would be your most conservative portion of your portfolio. And of course you cannot touch it until age 65.
There's probably something I haven't accounted for but you get the general idea. Something similar to this could work.
Too bad the dems only want to play politics instead of fixing something THEY broke. Bush's plan wasn't perfect but you can bet he would have entertained adjustments to it for compromises sake. But the dems only chose to say "Bush evil" and let us continue to suffer the consequences of their actions. The truly evil are the dems in charge, pushing their agenda.

[RAGNAR]

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[PBzeer]

The government already runs the Thrift Savings Plan. Let people put their money there. But, there's one simple reason most politicans aren't for privatization, and that's because they lose the revenue from the SS taxes.

[RAGNAR]

ttt

[cardiacpaul]

[I]I love how shamelessly you psychologize a person you know nothing about, looking for cheap rhetoric when you should be looking to argue the point on its own merits.[/I]

I know a little about this guy...
Its me. savings (almost 7 figures) gone, house, gone. 401k, gone, IRA, gone. and I STILL have just about half a mil in medical bills that will NEVER be paid.
so, spend a while in the real world.

Without medicare and supplimental insurance (out of pocket about 4300.00 a year...medicare, insurance, deductibles, and co-pays.), my medications alone would be a bit over 1400.00 per month.

Yes, I paid into it, most years, I paid the max. almost 30 years I paid.
Just what color is the sky in your world?
Apparently you've never had a medical problem, or been so silver-spooned, you have no idea about costs.
walk a mile big guy, until then, I remain in reality.

Any impact prior medical history has on anyone's employment options stems from the disasters that follow from the political mentality behind our pathetic healthcare system.

Bullshite.
I've had hiring managers tell me I would be a huge insurance liability. Imagine if you will, if I'm driving to a clients site and I have another "cardiac event" and run into someone, who gets sued?
Imagine I'm banging away at a clients keyboard, and I have a cardiac event, falling face first onto their keyboard, who get sued for emotional distreaa? not me. Therefore, liability issues. That may or not be the gov'ts faule, I don't know, and I don't care, all I know is you have a hard time securing gainful employment afterward, (dick cheney not withstanding)

"but you're OK with the state taking money away from the more able (that's where the money is) to provide a standard of living for people that repeatedly act against their own interests?"

Ahh, my myopic friend, now we get to it.
I had, I paid, I purchased, I planned. I took steps. I did what any prudent person would do. And ~ Its not enough. period.
Are you saying that those who have keep and those who don't fend for themselves?

If so, I certainly wish you well, and hope the hell you never get cancer, heart attack, parkinsons, or have a family member inflicted, because there is a rude awakening due.

"Unless you turn off the presumptions and psychologizing, we're done here. Unless you stop pointing to the horrible consequences of government interference and attributing them to freedom, I can't see that I have much else to say."

I have seen first hand the "presumptions" of which you speak.
I have been involved with the deregulation of telecom. I also can see where SWB nee At&T has once again monopolized the industry, LDC, ILEC and Cell. Was this the intent of Judge Green? I doubt it.
I have first hand knowledge of the health care crisis in the US and of government intervention in same and in MY life. I don't see where your opinions are any more than the rantings of a libertarian that has no experience of any concequence. It all looks good on paper, in practice, its all good, till something happens to YOU. So, I agree, we're done.

[RAGNAR]

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