Democrats versus Republicans

[wind_magic]

Originally Posted by sck5

We NEED good advocates in Washington because we pay far more in federal taxes than we get back in federal spending, unlike many of the so-called red states out west. New York pays its own way and then some. I am tired of subsidizing Republicans who insist on whining about the feds when in fact they are sucking dollars from the rest of us.

I have to take issue with this Sck5.

It is true that more federal money goes to rural areas in the way you say it, but not in the way you mean it. Yes, federal money goes to rural areas, but do you know what it goes there to do ? I can assure you it's not coming to rural areas to benefit rural people. Rural areas get a lot of money to do things like build really long lonely highways, manage large areas of national forest, generate hydro-electric power, the list goes on and on ... do you know what all of those things have in common ? They supply CITIES with food, electricity, vacation destinations, and all the rest. What do rural people give a damn about interstate highways ? Or giving up their land so that suburbanites have another place to go hiking and see deer for the first time ?

Remember where your food comes from, and the lumber that built your house.

[AdamLein]

Who works for the companies that provide the cities with food, electricity, and lumber? Probably the folks living the rural areas.

[wind_magic]

Originally Posted by AdamLein

Who works for the companies that provide the cities with food, electricity, and lumber? Probably the folks living the rural areas.

Give me a break.

If rural people receive such a windfall of federal, state, etc, money, then why is it that most rural people don't have cell phones (no cell infrastructure), don't have cable modems (no cable), live on dirt roads, use dial-up to get to the net, often clear the roads themselves, fix potholes themselves, provide their own water, and sometimes their own electricity. Even when they don't make their own electricity it's often spotty, going out for a week or more at a time when there are storms.

Rural people know they are getting ripped off when the tax man takes a third or more of their paycheck, because they know that money is building a new museum in the city, or a new suburban hospital, or paving an interstate that takes business away from the local economy, or is used to steal their land, etc. That's why the number one issue with rural people is taxes - it's not because they are confused or stupid, quite the contrary, it's because they know EXACTLY what's going on.

Don't even try to make it like rural people have it all bright and shiney.

[PBzeer]

Or, to put it another way, they are too busy using their hands to get things done, to stand around with a hand out, waiting for somebody else to take care of things.

[sck5]

wind magic

I live in NY state. It is rural as hell. My town has one stop light and 9000 people. Cows way outnumber the people.

Yet contrary to what Sway alleges, we DO pay more in taxes to the Feds than we get in spite of all of the rural virtues you name. No, all those Amtrak subsidies dont change the calculation much. Unlike the drivers out west, when I go on an interstate highway I pay a toll to do it. They dont. Here in upstate NY we also pay more in STATE taxes than we get because NYC sucks money from upstate.

One way to take what I said was that all those Repubs out west should get less Federal funding because they contribute less taxes.

But another equally valid point of view is that they should just quit whining about federal spending. I dont necessarily grudge the expenditures going to, e.g. Idaho or Wyoming. I just get tired of the hypocrisy on Federal spending and taxes coming from people who are getting subsidized by ME. Either shut up or dont take all the money is my attitude - Take your pick.

[AdamLein]

wind magic

Not trying to imply that the boondocks is some kind of consumer paradise. But if a rural area's economy depends on exports, then it benefits from infrastructure projects that allow that exporting to occur. The benefits are not infinite; but they're meaningful.

On the other hand, if a rural area's economy is totally isolated from the outside world, then all my respect goes to it. Or if that's a goal for the area... by all means, cut off your exports of food and lumber to the cities. Hold it hostage in return for lower taxes, which despite being city-folk, I myself support.

Oh, and, vote for congressmen who veto spending bills. Including agriculture subsidies, if you want to be principled about it.

[sailaway21]

sck5,
Quit grousing and pay your own freight. Just because your state sucks more money out of your pocket than anywhere but California doesn't entitle you to the first federal government teat. You guys are embarrassing in the way you think the federal government is supposed to bail you out, just because you're New York. Your state pisses away more money on mass transit than most other state's entire transportation budget. Hell, you guys are almost as bad as Boston! Find someone who cares.

[sck5]

Poor sway - didnt read what I wrote!

to quote me

"I dont necessarily grudge the expenditures going to, e.g. Idaho or Wyoming. I just get tired of the hypocrisy on Federal spending and taxes coming from people who are getting subsidized by ME. Either shut up or dont take all the money is my attitude - Take your pick."

I'm not asking anyone to bail me out. I can move if I dont like it here. What I am saying is that people who suck on the Federal tit shouldnt whine louder than anyone else about Federal spending.

Sway, your moderation is going to your head!! Down boy down!! Dont bite the liberals when they arent pissing on your leg!!

[sailaway21]

I just gotta hard-on for New Yorkers...can ya tell?

I read what you wrote and I, along with everyone else who read it, said it was spinach. New York residents are subsidizing anyone but themselves. Anyone who says otherwise is delusional.

[wind_magic]

Sck5, I didn't respond directly to your post because there weren't huge points that I disgreed with - it may not seem like it from my responses, but you and I actually agree more often than it might seem.

Originally Posted by AdamLein

wind magic

Not trying to imply that the boondocks is some kind of consumer paradise. But if a rural area's economy depends on exports, then it benefits from infrastructure projects that allow that exporting to occur. The benefits are not infinite; but they're meaningful.

That's like taking 100$us from someone then paying them 50$us of it to wash your car.

Don't piss on me and tell me it's raining.

On the other hand, if a rural area's economy is totally isolated from the outside world, then all my respect goes to it. Or if that's a goal for the area... by all means, cut off your exports of food and lumber to the cities. Hold it hostage in return for lower taxes, which despite being city-folk, I myself support.

Oh, and, vote for congressmen who veto spending bills. Including agriculture subsidies, if you want to be principled about it.

Please! agriculture subsidies ? ... you just shot one barrel of your single barrel shotgun. Name ANYTHING ELSE that rural people benefit from in terms of federal spending - and keep in mind that agricultural subsidies accounts for 16 billion $us a year, the same amount as New York City is getting ready to spend to replace the Tappan Zee bridge. What does NYC have, 34 other bridges just like it ? Oh, boo hoo no no no please Mr. Congressman, don't take away our 16 billion $us in farm subsidies, that'd break our widdle hearts ...

I shouldn't even be contributing on this topic, it's just going to irritate me.