Democrats versus Republicans

[PBzeer]

Pray tell, what would give them the impression that we aren't a democratic republic? Perhaps you could point out another country were minorities are in a better position than here? Or where more is done for them to give them advantages that ordinary people don't get?

There's only two reasons any semi-intelligent person would doubt the equality of opportunity that exists in America. Sheer utter ignorance, or anti-American propaganda. To think that electing someone based on their gender,race or ethnicity proves anything, you first have to accept that all white people are bigots. Do you really think an Oprah, Tiger Woods, Alex Rodriguez, Will Smith and on and on are only popular because they are minorities? Do you think people voted for Obama because he's black, rather than for what he offered?

[jgmartis]

Originally Posted by erps

A bunch of us were already proud of our country.

But if you are only proud of America you are a poor citizen as America has much to be ashamed of even though we have more to proud of. I have always been proud of America and I have always been ashamed of America because I realize that America is not perfect and if we stop challenging our country to do better we will doom our country to failure.

[wind_magic]

Originally Posted by sck5

now it is proven to everyone that anyone can be president. that is a good thing and even if you already knew that, lots of people didnt but do now.

Agreed. Obviously it has a lot of profound implications for a lot of people. I didn't think that someone's race was a good reason to elect them to office, but now that the election is over, it's a good side effect. I think most younger people in this country weren't exactly sure what the big deal was about, I mean they knew it was historic and many were very excited, but "racism" to most young people is just a few bad words exchanged in the school cafeteria in anger, they never really experienced what things used to be like. It's older people, I think, that really feel the full effect of Obama's election to office.

it also proves to lots of foreigners that our national self image isnt a bunch of propaganda - we actually ARE a democracy. and that is a good thing for us and for them.

Most of us don't care what foreigners think.

[erps]

Originally Posted by jgmartis

But if you are only proud of America you are a poor citizen as America has much to be ashamed of even though we have more to proud of. I have always been proud of America and I have always been ashamed of America because I realize that America is not perfect and if we stop challenging our country to do better we will doom our country to failure.

So were the Hollywood elite that were only ashamed of America for the past eight years poor citizens too?

[jgmartis]

Originally Posted by erps

So were the Hollywood elite that were only ashamed of America for the past eight years poor citizens too?

There was a lot to be ashamed of for the last 8 years (see my post on page 11 of Inauguration) but if anyone was only ashamed or only proud then they were poor citizens. Remember one thing just because Rush, Shawn, Laura or Bill says that they weren’t proud doesn’t mean that it is so.

[AdamLein]

So, if matters had been different -- if one day in the distant future, American society collapses into anarchy and is replaced by warring city states run by an ever-changing army of warlords, without ever having elected a black president -- would that mean that we wouldn't know whether America was really a democracy?

That's the metric upon which we judge our political system? Whether a not the people will vote in sufficient numbers to put a person with differently-colored skin in charge?

I think all it proves is that everybody who says that race doesn't exist can shut up now (though I wonder whom they voted for...).

[sck5]

cheap shot erps. do you REALLY think being proud of what we did means we werent proud before? Sheesh, you are usually better than that.

and for those of you who dont care what foreigners think - It used to be that we all agreed that being the beacon of hope for the rest of the world made us safer because everyone wanted to be on our side. Losing that is bad for national security. I am fine with that if it is for a good reason but when it is for a thing like invading Iraq then it isnt a very good choice.

[erps]

Your words sound like hate radio
Quote:
Originally Posted by erps View Post
So were the Hollywood elite that were only ashamed of America for the past eight years poor citizens too?

I merely repeated your premise in the reverse. If you think it sounds hateful, then it's because you're saying hateful things.

[erps]

cheap shot erps. do you REALLY think being proud of what we did means we werent proud before? Sheesh, you are usually better than that.

I don't know sck5. Wasn't it Michelle Obama who said she only recently became proud of America? So I honestly don't know if you were proud of America or not until today. All I know is that I am no more or less proud today than yesterday.

At last, Michelle Obama proud of America - BostonHerald.com

[sailaway21]

Originally Posted by sck5

Hey, we should all be proud of ourselves. black people used to be slaves. now it is proven to everyone that anyone can be president. that is a good thing and even if you already knew that, lots of people didnt but do now. it also proves to lots of foreigners that our national self image isnt a bunch of propaganda - we actually ARE a democracy. and that is a good thing for us and for them.

I gotta think that you're better educated than the above post shows. It's hardly proven that "anyone" can be President, assuming we'd want just anyone for President. Under your premise, I'd be living a prosperous retirement now as the former center of the Boston Celtics.

If anyone doesn't know that most of what they accomplish in America depends on their gumption and the quality of the rearing they receive from their parents, I'm not sure that the election of a black man as President is going to be particularly illuminating for them.

Our national self image is intact unless you're part of the blame America first crowd. Foreigners, to the extent their opinion matters, see one over-riding thing in America; freedom. All of their other criticisms become minor when considered against freedom.

We're not a democracy. We're a republic. We elect our representatives to our government democratically for the most part. Ancient Greece was a democracy. Rome was a republic. We're a republic.

Some of this may be good for us; we'll see. Try not to assume what is good for foreigners. They may have their own peculiar notions of what's good for them, irrespective of the over-arching notions of world order held by the liberal intelligentsia within these United States.