Democrats versus Republicans

[camaraderie]

Rags...when has it not been so? Unfortunately....it is picking up speed downhill as the "needy" vote themselves an ever larger share of the pie they didn't help bake.

[RAGNAR]

,,,

[tdw]

Originally Posted by camaraderie

Rags...when has it not been so? Unfortunately....it is picking up speed downhill as the "needy" vote themselves an ever larger share of the pie they didn't help bake.

Cam,
I can't quote you chapter and verse but every statistic that I have seen in recent years shows an ever widening gap between the rich and the poor. Certainly in this country those on social security (be that the dole, old age pension, or medical benefits) have seen their share of the pie fail to even keep up with CPI increases. Historically low interest rates have also harmed those relying on their savings to finance their later years. Meanwhile the only people I see who are benefiting from the public purse are the usual suspects with their snouts in the public trough.
For sure when you've spent you whole life working your arse off to build your pile it can be pretty galling to see the leaches sucking away at the public purse but the percentage of people who come under the heading of "dole bludgers" is quite small, I believe. From my experience of employing people during the past 35 years I've generally found most unemployed folk are more than happy to get a job, even when that job may not leave them with much more money that they get on the dole. Yes there are exceptions but that is to be expected after all.
I left school at 18, did part time university, started my own business at 23 with bugger all capital , did very nicely, made some mistakes, got ripped off by my partner, effectively bankrupt at 30, worked 7 days a week to pay of my debts and finally got back on top. For one horrifying period I had no alternative than to go on the dole for about three months and I can tell you going into that dole office every two weeks was probably the most humiliating experience of my life. I simply cannot believe that many people choose to go through that.
Regards

[PBzeer]

tdw - first you have to have some sense of self-esteem, before you can be embarassed about going into the dole office. For many in this country, it's a way of life, and if you listen to the rhetoric of the Left in this country, you'll see that is who they reach out to. Were welfare or the dole used only as a stopgap because of unfortunate circumstance, it would be of good purpose, and I feel it should be available in that way. Here though, we have families who have known nothing else but welfare.

While there may be a growing statistical gap between rich and poor (designations that are iffy at best, since what is considered poor here, would be wealthy in much of the world), that is meaningless without the percentage of the population of each group.

Another sad fact here, is that government handouts, better known as wealth redistributation, are an accepted political enticement. Any time you have a group of people, using money which they have not earned, you eliminate all sense of responsibility of how that money is used.

[tdw]

Originally Posted by PBzeer

tdw - first you have to have some sense of self-esteem, before you can be embarassed about going into the dole office. For many in this country, it's a way of life, and if you listen to the rhetoric of the Left in this country, you'll see that is who they reach out to. Were welfare or the dole used only as a stopgap because of unfortunate circumstance, it would be of good purpose, and I feel it should be available in that way. Here though, we have families who have known nothing else but welfare.

While there may be a growing statistical gap between rich and poor (designations that are iffy at best, since what is considered poor here, would be wealthy in much of the world), that is meaningless without the percentage of the population of each group.

Another sad fact here, is that government handouts, better known as wealth redistributation, are an accepted political enticement. Any time you have a group of people, using money which they have not earned, you eliminate all sense of responsibility of how that money is used.

PB,
Yes that's right about self esteem and it may well be that here is different to the US but I didn't see too many people who were content to be in that rotten queue at the dole office.
Again, yes, statistics are always a problem but it is fairly obvious that the gap is widening. It's also true that many folk on quite good incomes are in fact struggling due to a large part of their income going to pay off insanely high mortgages. Crazy property values is a situation that really does need to be addressed, if interest rates do take a hike upwards the bankruptcy rates are going to go ballistic.
As to you last point, you are talking about the farmers right ? Of course you're not but payments to farmers and other self interest groups is part of this whole issue. It's not just the unemployed.

[PBzeer]

Oh, most definitely, it's not confined to the "poor". In the overall scheme of things it's about one thing only, buying votes. They can dress it up anyway they choose, but the sad, and maddening fact is, it's just politics as usual. Politicans no longer, if they ever really did, run on principles, they run on focus groups. The only principle they cling to is their own election and subsequent re-election. Everything else is geared to that, and nothing else.

[tdw]

Originally Posted by PBzeer

Oh, most definitely, it's not confined to the "poor". In the overall scheme of things it's about one thing only, buying votes. They can dress it up anyway they choose, but the sad, and maddening fact is, it's just politics as usual. Politicans no longer, if they ever really did, run on principles, they run on focus groups. The only principle they cling to is their own election and subsequent re-election. Everything else is geared to that, and nothing else.

Down here pollies get superannuation. You can bet your cotton sox they hang on to that little perk.

Nice example of pigs snouts in the trough , it's been revealed that a former minister in the current federal government spent $38,000 dollars on Mandarin language lessons.

[donrr1]

August 22, 2006

• Welfare Reform, Ten Years Later
  Today is the 10th anniversary of The Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act, which reformed the federal welfare system. The law established time limits and work requirements for welfare recipients, and gave states much more authority to establish other requirements and restrictions. Since the reform, the number of people receiving welfare has dropped dramatically in most states.
  
  Public Agenda polls found that people resented the values of the old welfare system more than its cost. The public -- including whites, African Americans and people from welfare families -- said the old welfare system was abused and encouraged unwed pregnancy. Large majorities -- including those in welfare families -- believed the old system needed change. The vast majority of those who know about welfare reform say it works well because of the work requirement.

• Don

[PBzeer]

The worst part is, it's still the most equitable form of govenment around, yet, it could be so much better. Unfortunately, that won't happen as long as it's in the hands of the politicans. Is it only coincidence that most politicans are lawyers?

[PBzeer]

I'm aware of the drop in recipients. I'm hesitant to accept the poll results though, as it is by and large, a question that would recieve that type of an answer, whether it was true or not.